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Your wilful ignorance of history is astounding.
Read some goddamned history books.
Which history books do you read?
I really cant be bothered explaining any further. It would take too long and you wouldnt listen anyway.
The guy who discovered we orbit the sun threatened with torture?
Thank god the christian's were alert to new ideas, that's what I say!
Belief is for fuckwits - evidence and facts are the way to do things.
If you cared to travel or even look into Muslim countries such as Turkey, Lebanon or Jordan you would not see many differences with Western societies.
It's the rulers that do the damage to a nation, using religion as a pretext. It has happened in Christian Europe for many many centuries and only relatively recently things changed.
I suspect you're getting muddled up with the Catholic Church and Christianity. Parliamentary democracy wouldn't have evolved (or taken much longer to do so) without things such the Glorious Revolution - where the rebels had a very religious bent.
And whilst at times the Church and its members have been enemies of progress at other times many of the great scientists have been actively involved in the Church, eg Joseph Priestly who 'discovered' oxygen. To say nothing of the great works of Art which were inspired by Christianity
I also suspect that you might find a few differences between Jordan and France (Jordan's lack of democracy for a start) and Lebanon has such a weak democratic structure they've managed to kill more of their own politicians than leaders than the US (and given how quickly they manage to dispose of Presidents thats saying something). Even Turkey is certainly not as democratic or liberal compared to Western 'Christian' states and its probably the most advanced Moslem state in terms of human rights and democracy
(though just to put in a counterpoint to my argument I've been impressed with the movement that Palestine has made, even if i wasn't impressed with the result and in Iraq, despite the attempts of religious and secular reactionaries, there is a move towards a proper democratic Government).
Is a corrupt, violent and murderous democracy in any way more desirable than a peaceful non-democracy? Not in my book.
As for Christianity and its influence, yes there has been a bit of everything but it cannot be denied that the Church, Catholic or otherwise has and in many cases continues to have influence on the social and legal fabric of nations. To suggest that it's because of Christianity that Western societies free and permissive does not ring true.
Well as a theoretical point its certainly arguable about whether a corrupt democracy is better or worse than a benign dictatorship. However, I'll think you'll find that the dictatorships aren't that benign.
Jordan is relatively liberal compared to some of its neighbours - but it still jails people without trial, commits torture on its own citizens and has massive press censorship. If you think thats a better society than say France, Germany or the UK that's up to you. I know which one I'd rather live.
On the influence of the Christian religion I'm not religious enough to say that religion has been a wholly good thing - but I do dispute that its been a force for absolute evil. Its done both good and bad - its very bad has been horrendously evil, but conversley some of the good which has come out of religion has been instrumental in human progress.
Believe it or not I'm not denying that... I'm simply questioning some people's claims that Islam has a particularly worse effect on society than Christianity.
That's the good thing about debate - as we seemed to start out poles apart and after a few posts I don't think we fundamentally disagree.
I'm not sure what you're arguing. The French Revolution was one of the most bloody periods in human history, leading to mass murder, not just of the aristocracy but thousands of people who disagreed with the Directorate. It directly led to the autocracy of Napoleon who out of personal ambition plunged Europe into years of war and bloodshed.
Stalin also banned religion, and Hitler threw thousands of Christian leaders into concentration camps. I'm not convinced these were good things either.
Our less enlightened friend keeps making vague references to the Englightenment and how Christian states made it possible. I'm pointing out one of the "successes" of the Enlightenment was very anti-religion. It also helped spwan the American Revolution, another state not founded on Christian ideals.
Or only the big cities and holiday resorts?
the new testament = the christian scripures.
to surround buildings with machine gun armed men ...threatening to blow people and things up cos of a cartoon is indefensible.
it has shown up just how extreme these nutters are.
Atheism/agnosticism is the evolutionary step up from Protestantism, and Protestantism is the evolutionary step up from Roman Catholicism. Islam has not underwent such a transformation and as such it's highly foolish to insist that Islam is comparable to modern Christian theology.
I'm happy that the whole thing amuses you.
Quite frankly, to be from the inner city of Copenhagen, and hearing about daily reports about flag burning, burning of pictures of our prime minister, and the call for Jihad against Danish targets is not exactly delighting to hear.
Furthermore, the cartoonists are currently pissing themselves as the pictures are being published around the world.
Yes, you can go on with your grinning
Absolutely.
if this was christians carrying posters outside a theatre chanting against some porny play you'd be screaming your usual stuff about religion but ...when it's muslims with death threats guns and bombs ...over nothing...people seem to either go sheepish or silent or ...start on the christians.