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Government preparing to massacre the railway network

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    SNFC have the largest network of high speed trains- and the fastest speed trains in the world at that. The trains run on time too, and travel is cheaper than in the UK. What makes you say their trains are shit? :confused:

    Have you ever travelled by rail in France? Away from TGV?

    TGV is a very good network, but it isn't all that frequent. A train at a maximum of once every 90 minutes from Paris to Bordeaux- given that level, trains shouldn't be delayed.

    To compare, there's about 3-4 trains an hour between London and York. There's about 4 an hour from London to Birmingham/Manchester.

    More trains = more chance to go wrong.

    And TGV is hardly cheap. Fares are a bit cheaper, yes, but the subsidies are gigantic- to compare, both First Great Western and GNER pay £100m a year to the Government. And you should be comparing TGV to these TOCs.
    Germany, again, nice network of real high speed trains, and no horror stories of bad delays, ancient rolling stock, and appallingly bad railtracks.

    How much rolling stock now is ancient? The oldest thing I can think of is HST, which- I'm sure you agree- is still a top train.

    And Germany has fatalities due to mistakes. Head-on collisions, and an ICE that killed a huge number of people after bouncing off the tracks.
    Oh please! BR never put essential repairs on hold to maximise profits.

    They did.

    Or, more accurately, to minimise costs. Which is exactly the same thing.

    BR routinely cut corners in order to cut costs. That's why many lines were "mothballed" by BR, including the Croxley Green branch in London that was "mothballed" by having a dual carriageway built over the top of it.

    Go and read up about Ribblehead. It's something that should interest you- Government railways try to close it down, private TOC completely revitalises the service with better quality rolling stock and a frequency increased by 500%.
    BR checked the tracks every night, by their own staff, as opposed to Railtrack which did it once every few days and subcontracted to death.

    Yep. To an extent, anyway. BR weren't quite that good.

    Railtrack doesn't exist anymore. Maintenance has been in-house for about four years. Did nobody tell you?
    I'd would still have them over fat cat bastards and faceless shareholders...who haven't even got any regard for passengers safety

    I hope to God you're going to prove that, because that is very close to being slander.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I hope to God you're going to prove that, because that is very close to being slander.
    I'll do it when you prove the following:
    this country is ruled by a cabal of trade unionists, champagne socialists and business leaders who all have the same objective at heart: fuck the country, and fill your boots.

    And in any case, I have one word for you: Hatfield

    And two more: Potters Bar
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Campaign Against New Beeching Report

    A group of us have been working on this since the news broke. We have just launched our website. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517

    We would welcome all views , both positive & negative , as our initial aim is to raise awareness of the very real threat the rail network faces.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    In an 83-page "consultation" document, the Department for Transport is hell-bent on devising a way of cutting huge swathes out of the railway network, replacing train services on many mostly Northern rural lines with a bus service instead.

    The only thing that will decide the fate of a railway line is whether it makes money. Forget lines such as that to Whitby or rural Northumberland, which could never make a significant profit, if one at all. Forget the people reliant on the train service. Forget the gridlock that is endemic in most cities now.

    Story.

    And people trust these cretins to run a train service?

    London will be fine, but as these rural areas don't have many people, there isn't many votes to lose. Yet again, a stab in the back for those in rural areas, who will be forced onto the roads and then charged an absolute fortune for not using "viable" public transport alternatives.

    And people try and claim there's no need for a car in a city centre anymore. There will be if there's no bloody train service.

    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hmm, if they are going to go ahead with it, heres an idea to save money, tell the US government that theres terrorists hiding in and around the rail networks in desolate parts of the country, get them to bomb the hell out of the lines, hey presto no services

    save a bomb (forgive the pun) on consultancy fees alone
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The process may have already begun. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2057570,00.html
    For more info visit our site
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DfT Rail Closures Guidance Consultation

    The consultation on the proposals that this thread is based on is happening now. http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_railways/documents/divisionhomepage/611062.hcsp
    If you want to try and stop this , then you have until April 21 to get your responses in. For more info , visit our site http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the German train (actually, public transport in general) system is excellent, I'm surprised anyone would dispute that.

    Even the "worst" trains are nothing to complain about, I haven't had one problem or delay while being over there and I've spent a considerable amount of time there.

    They also have great fare systems for cheapskates like myself. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote:
    If they hadn't sold the network off to seperate companies in the first place then the busier lines would have subsidised the less used ones.

    They still do.

    The busy and profitable intercity operators pay a premium to the Treasury- both FirstGroup and GNER pay in excess of £100m pa in premiums.

    And under BR the little-used lines were shut down and "bustituted" anyway. Two words: Doctor Beeching.

    The German system is very good, but it's very good because its run by Germans, not because it's a state run thing. Especially as some publ;ic transport in germany is contracted out, AFAIK the Munich underground is now contracted out.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Potential National Review Of Station Usage

    Network Rail have proposed the following :

    "A national review of station usage (based on the number of users per day and per train) could consider least-used stations against the criteria already being applied to proposals for new stations."

    http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Documents/Appendix%202.2.pdf

    A similiar review was conducted as a prelude to the original Beeching Report.

    Visit our site for more info.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    I agree with you, Kermit. I don't know what's going on at the moment. John Prescott, when not pulling a muscle in a publicity stunt, is trying to put a plan through that is, in effect, "demolish the north, concrete the south". I suspect this is merely an extension of that.

    People often wonder why I'm leaving Wales and going into the city. "You live in such a beautiful area, why would you want to leave?", one daydreamer asked recently. Well, this is precisely one reason why. Better transport links, better job prospects, and such make it an enticing prospect.

    You can be cheerful though that, as the North of England are Labour heartlands, that Labour MPs will fight this. Oh wait, I forgot what a bunch of complacent, lazy bastards Labour MPs are.

    Maybe David Cameron will fight this, with his brand of conservative liberal democratism. Oh wait, he doesn't do "-isms", does he? And he lives in a swanky Notting Hill house. No luck there. As for the LibDems, they're all too busy coming out as homosexuals to remember there's a country going down the toilet thanks to this dreadful government.

    Tip to everyone - move south before Northern England is wiped off the map by a government that has no understanding of the countryside and rural areas.

    I think thats a bit harsh and off subject
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well won't buses damage the environment more than trains?

    Yup, I hear the US has bad public transport... However I am against petrol being affordable for anybody. Granted I think people in certain jobs should get money off... But technically only those in rural areas need a car or people working certain jobs. If you live in the city, catching a tram, bus or train won't kill you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Until public transport doesn't stop at stupid o'clock, we all need cars.

    Until public transport is actually useful, rather than the current all buses go to town approach we have now, we all need cars.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Kermit wrote:
    Until public transport doesn't stop at stupid o'clock, we all need cars.

    Until public transport is actually useful, rather than the current all buses go to town approach we have now, we all need cars.

    Well said.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Potential National Review Of Station Usage

    I may not have put across just how serious a threat to the rail network that this potentially is.
    http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Documents/Appendix%202.2.pdf

    What the proposed Network Rail review would do would be to consider the stations that they feel are the least used as if they HAVENT BEEN BUILT YET.
    These stations would have to go through the same process as a proposed new station in a major city would just to justify their existance. Given the current cost-benefit analysis applied to new station proposals , many existing ones probably dont stand a chance.

    For more info , visit our site.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A lot of stations probably don't deserve to stand a chance, though.

    That's the problem. For instance Berney Arms in Norfolk, what is the point of that station? The nearest road is three miles away.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How about Melksham (Wiltshire) then? Ticket sales have risen 8 fold (3,200 to 27,400) in five years. However , they are about to have their service cut to just 2 round trips a day. If Network Rail then assess Melksham on the reduced passenger numbers that would result from this , and treat it in the same way as a new station proposal , then you can guess the threat that the station would come under.

    Personally , I think that this website , which campaigns for the protection of Melksham rail services , puts up a pretty good case.

    http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/index.html
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's always one example where things aren't right, and the West is getting a pretty raw deal from the new First franchise.

    Most stations that don't have any passengers don't deserve to stay open, though. That's the truth. Whilst I'd love to see all the railways kept open, there is a point where something is not viable.

    It shouldn't be solely on a balance sheet- but then, nor are proposals for new stations.

    At the same time, there is quite a bit of scaremongering sometimes. You should have read the drivel about the North's RUS.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    At the same time, there is quite a bit of scaremongering sometimes. You should have read the drivel about the North's RUS.

    Not by us I would add. On the occassions that the DfT get it right , us & other groups/organisations say so. We did feel the need to point out the contrast with the Greater Western Franchise , though.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/F3641215?thread=2539910&show=200
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The GW franchise is nothing short of a joke, to be honest. I guess that's what happens when rural services are merged with InterCity services to try and cut costs.

    I suppose there's a moral in there somewhere about FirstGroup, too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Things are not looking promising on the Greater Western Franchise front.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4855264.stm

    For more info , visit our site.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517
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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    RailLee wrote:
    Things are not looking promising on the Greater Western Franchise front.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4855264.stm

    For more info , visit our site.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517
    No suprises...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    RIP Wessex Trains , the First era has begun early at Melksham.

    http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/update/archives/2006/03/someone_cant_wa.html
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Demonstration planned against Greater Western Franchise service cuts on Monday at Totnes.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/F3641215?thread=2625016&show=200
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Usage Review Of Cornish Branch Lines This Summer

    First has announced a usage review of Cornish Branch Lines which will begin this summer
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2117237,00.html

    Quote from First :

    "The question is whether these services are commercially viable or not.”

    For more info , visit our site.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1517
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Totnes - Ivybridge Protest

    Tomorrow (April 6) there is going to be a demonstration by Friends of the Earth who will be boarding the 8.06 at Totnes carrying large cardboard axes.

    They will get off at Ivybridge where members of Ivybridge Rail Users Group will meet them and join in the protest.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/F3641215?thread=2652957&show=200

    If you can get to Ivybridge , then we would urge you to join them.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Latest on the Rail fiasco:
    Here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BBC wrote:
    Government ministers are known to be involved, in what has been referred to as a railtrack coup d'etat

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4873552.stm
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Madness I wonder what Kermit has to say for all this!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's a sad day for humanity! :crying:
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