Definition of racism and descrimination...

BillieTheBot

Just starting this post cos apprantly I post racist and descrimination comment, so I like to know where is the limit where having an opinion is called racism or discremination.

Apparantly me not liking people from my own country is racism, I mean I might hate (sorry I meant have some opinions about them that are not good, let's stay politicaly corret) the french, but I AM one of them, lived among them for 18 years, so I think I have some right to critic my own people and country. If i was taking the piss at an other country that mine I would understand.

What bother me the most is, how may times in this forum have you seen "I hate chavs" "I hate that kind of people"... Have you been warned about using such terms? Cos to me it is the exact same stuff.

But here that's ok, apparantly it is not discremination, sounds the exactly the same shit to me tho. Since when having an opinion is being racist?

If i had posted reasons for not liking them or text so people have reason to hate the french or if I was clearly showing my will to make more people hate the french, I would say alright maybe.

Since when hating something or someone is racism...

I mean how many of you hate their ex, does it make you racist...

How many time on tv serie and movie, english or american, there is reference to the french being smelly, arrogant and everything. But somehow they still air and nobody say it is racism or discremination.

Censure itself is an act of racism and discremination.
If you haven't notice yet my thread is gone.

Are we suppose to love everyone, even morons, just so we can stay politicaly correct...

Why the hell anyone ever came up with "Freedom of Speech"...

I mean ok, it was maybe a bit general to say all french are bad, I agree on that, some of us are ok, but all i asked is who hate the french and why.

Is it racism or discremination to ask who hate people from your country and why?

P.S: If i read all the threads and posts of this forum, i'm sure I can find way more offensive comment about certain type of people, but thos stay...

Former Member

To be fair it was the tone of the thread that was seen as a problem and it was seen as discriminatory, not racist and just to point out it's actually a very hard job moderating and everything has to be taken in context - thinks do slip by, but that doesn't mean we don't have to take action when we see it as appropriate.

And remember - you don't see a huge amount of racist and discriminatory comments by, often banned, users as it's deleted.

Former Member

Witch hunt!

Former Member

Is it racism or discremination to ask who hate people from your country and why?

Yes you are a racist xenophobic knuckle dragger and should be put in a concentration camp.

Seriously though, being derogitory about anything is not racism.

Former Member

There is no dicrimanation or racism about wht hes saying...

i'll have to agree with him what he is saying is not racist but it is his opinion of his own country! :grump: It is just an opinion he is not trying to make anyone else think of it like he does he is just simply stating whaat he feels...aren't people always say speak your mind, voice your opinions not matter what anyone says...and you cant say its his TONE because you can interprate his tone in anyway you like because you cant here him you are reading it off your computer screen! so depending on how you feel on the subject depends on what tone u presume he is useing... :crazyeyes so therefore you cannot judge what he is saying because you cant hear the way hes speaking and it is only what he thinks..his opinion is not being imposed on any one or preasuring anyone else to support his view... :chin: :mad:

Former Member

Jim V wrote:

To be fair it was the tone of the thread that was seen as a problem and it was seen as discriminatory, not racist and just to point out it's actually a very hard job moderating and everything has to be taken in context - thinks do slip by, but that doesn't mean we don't have to take action when we see it as appropriate.

And remember - you don't see a huge amount of racist and discriminatory comments by, often banned, users as it's deleted.

I think we are all good now mate ;-)

Former Member

Just wanted to say, now that i'm less pissed off, that the moderator did right, I still think it was not racism and descrimination, but for some people it could have been and it would be a shame if TheSite would have been in trouble for such a post.

Former Member

The problem comes when you go from specifics to generalisations. From "I hate this particular French person" to "all French people are like that and I hate them"

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

The problem comes when you go from specifics to generalisations. From "I hate this particular French person" to "all French people are like that and I hate them"

Yep I see the point.

I'm just a bit extreme and too direct sometimes, will just be careful on how I writte my post/thread now...

Former Member

It's not about how you write something, but what you believe. There is no point saying that you love the French, for example, if you don't.

Whilst your views may be discriminatory you still have a right to them. By denying that we just push beliefs underground and aren't able to challenge the foundation of ignorance which such views are usually built on.

Former Member

Nope it's not racist to say you hate the French because there are black Frenchmen, white Frenchmen and asian Frenchmen. It's only a laugh anyway isn't it. It's fun to stereotype when you don't actually mean it. I love slagging off the Irish myself.

Former Member

turlough wrote:

Nope it's not racist to say you hate the French because there are black Frenchmen, white Frenchmen and asian Frenchmen. It's only a laugh anyway isn't it. It's fun to stereotype when you don't actually mean it. I love slagging off the Irish myself.

Yep it was just for a laugh, but wanted to see also how many people seems to not like french.

I mean in plenty of tv shows/series I can see people make fun of french.

But was mainly for the laugh really...

Former Member

Man Of Kent wrote:

By denying that we just push beliefs underground and aren't able to challenge the foundation of ignorance which such views are usually built on.

Just wanted to say, excellent comment.

Former Member

I agree Man of Kent, but as a youth based website we've obligations beyond Voltaire's maxim - I wouldn't want anyone to be unable to say what they think in the world, but we are the one's who legally publish the material on this website, and as such have to draw (even if then can be arbitary) lines in the sand.

Former Member

I appreciate that, and I know that you take a stand. Sometimes, personally, I think you are too quick - Kermit's thread a couple of days ago being an example.

It is possible to be too sensitive and to miss the context of the comment, thus missing an opportunity for a debate. When you stifle debate then it just moves elsewhere and people are driven into the arms of extremists because it's the only place which they can freely air their views. In that setting there is no-one to challenge those views and indeed their audience just inflames them further.

Thus the seeds of racism, discrimination and hatred are planted. Watch them grow and then reap the harvest...

Former Member

Man Of Kent wrote:

I appreciate that, and I know that you take a stand. Sometimes, personally, I think you are too quick - Kermit's thread a couple of days ago being an example.

It is possible to be too sensitive and to miss the context of the comment, thus missing an opportunity for a debate. When you stifle debate then it just moves elsewhere and people are driven into the arms of extremists because it's the only place which they can freely air their views. In that setting there is no-one to challenge those views and indeed their audience just inflames them further.

Thus the seeds of racism, discrimination and hatred are planted. Watch them grow and then reap the harvest...

what i wished i could have said.

Former Member

The only thing I would reply to that is that racism, discrimination and hatred have flourished for centuries when it was perfectly okay and legal to express such opinions.

On that evidence I don't think banning racist and hatred talk is going to make things worse- who knows, maybe things will actually get better if we were to adopt a zero tolerance towards it. Maybe we need to eradicate such filth instead of hoping people will not be influenced by it.

Former Member

Aladdin wrote:

maybe things will actually get better if we were to adopt a zero tolerance towards it. Maybe we need to eradicate such filth instead of hoping people will not be influenced by it.

OMG!
maybe we should just jail all cocain users ...anyone who disagrees with unions ...don't let people disagree with the government ...don't in fact let people disagree with anything at all!
everything is ok ...so long as it's only what we agree to allow to be ok ...
is this the voice of reason?
this same guy will next be asking that religous belief be silenced!
in fact ...we will all be silenced unless we agree with ...with some programme of designated beliefs?

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

OMG!
maybe we should just jail all cocain users ...anyone who disagrees with unions ...don't let people disagree with the government ...don't in fact let people disagree with anything at all!
everything is ok ...so long as it's only what we agree to allow to be ok ...
is this the voice of reason?
this same guy will next be asking that religous belief be silenced!
in fact ...we will all be silenced unless we agree with ...with some programme of designated beliefs?

Nicely said.

Former Member

Aladdin wrote:

The only thing I would reply to that is that racism, discrimination and hatred have flourished for centuries when it was perfectly okay and legal to express such opinions.

Indeed, because good men kept quiet then. The prose "First they came for..." highlights that very fact. We know who the BNP are, who the leaders are, what they look like and what they are saying... I'd rather keep them in view TBH.

There is a saying, keep your friends close but your enemies closer which applies here.

On that evidence I don't think banning racist and hatred talk is going to make things worse- who knows, maybe things will actually get better if we were to adopt a zero tolerance towards it. Maybe we need to eradicate such filth instead of hoping people will not be influenced by it.

Because zero tolerance has worked so well with drugs, alcohol, cock fighting etc etc etc

Each of those has (or in alcohol's case during prohibition, was) driven underground and became harder to monitor. Religious expression and political exists in China where it is banned or at least seriously frowned upon.

Whilst the concept of eradication sounds like Utopia and I guess it's just that - unattainable.

Besides, just because I don't agree with an opinion, doesn't mean that it should be expressed. Dude, comments like that are more akin with totalitarianism than I think you would be comfortable with.

Former Member

Well I have always said that lines can be drawn. The ''they first came for xxx and I said nothing...'' saying does not apply as far as I am concern, because there is a fundamental difference between fascism, racism & homophobia and everything else. The former is simply an unnaceptable abomination. Anything else isn't. So there should be no need to fear for unions, communists, Tories, religion, eurosceptics or pro-hunt supporters to name but a few, because even though many people might disagree with what those people/movements stand for, they are still a valid part of life and society.

Fascism, racism and homophobia are not. They are a cancer that must be destroyed.

Former Member

Aladdin wrote:

Fascism, racism and homophobia are not. They are a cancer that must be destroyed.

I agree that it would be best if all of that didn't exist, but let's be obvious this will never happend and going at war against it is discremination by definition.

You don't think like I do so you should be destroyed...
I mean only dictators think shit like that.

Let's just do like the catholic use to do, you don't believe what we believe you die...

Also don't you think some people have reason for it?

So if you have been raped by an homo you are not allowed to be a bit homophobic?

If you have been attack or your familly died in a terrorist attack even so they were not racist and don't cause them any problem, you are not allowed to be a bit racist?

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

Also don't you think some people have reason for it?

Not really, no.

So if you have been raped by an homo you are not allowed to be a bit homophobic?

Why? If you are attacked in the pub by a brown-haired man, do you instantly hate all people with brown hair?

If you have been attack or your familly died in a terrorist attack even so they were not racist and don't cause them any problem, you are not allowed to be a bit racist?

No. You should be able to work out for yourself that you cannot judge an entire people on the actions of one individual.

Former Member

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Former Member

Aladdin wrote:

No. You should be able to work out for yourself that you cannot judge an entire people on the actions of one individual.

Well go tell that to people who got raped or got all their familly killed.

Do you really think it is that fucking easy to deal with trauma like that?

Would you manage it as easily as you write it?

If yes, I have to say you are an amazing and strong person. Seriously.

Former Member

Aladdin, saying that one set of views is unnacceptable and that you will use violence to stamp them out IS facism.

So, looks like Al is a facist.

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

Well go tell that to people who got raped or got all their familly killed.

I'll happily will.

Do you really think it is that fucking easy to deal with trauma like that?

Would you manage it as easily as you write it?

If yes, I have to say you are an amazing and strong person. Seriously.

Well luckily I have never been in such position but I have seen thousands of cases on TV where people have experienced bombings and suffered injuries or even lost a loved one, and they were perfectly capable of assuring everyone on TV that they didn't hold it against the race or people of the country in question because they knew it was the work of a few terrorists.

Do you really think it is normal behaviour to blame an entire nation or race for the actions of a few???

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

Also don't you think some people have reason for it?

So if you have been raped by an homo you are not allowed to be a bit homophobic?

If you have been attack or your familly died in a terrorist attack even so they were not racist and don't cause them any problem, you are not allowed to be a bit racist?

I think in cases like that its not "real" prejudice per se, as the definition of prejudice is an irrational dislike, ie no reason for it.
If someone has had a real trauma which causes them to fear or hate certain things, then its more understandable, but an intelligent person would be able to (hopefully) eventually see that it is a reaction based on a trauma and their fear and not becuase all *insert minority group here* people are bad.

Its not ok for people to be treated differently because of a stupid reason such as skin/hair colour, religion, country of origin, but peoples prejudices are often deeply rooted. They often have been brought up to believe something as true, when in actual fact it was just their grandparents/parents opinion, and unfortunatly, it will probably end up being their childrens opinion too. In this respect, Id almost go so far as to say you shouldnt judge people for being judgemental sometimes. Its the only bit of superiority they probably feel in their life. " I might be ugly, stupid, have a shit job, have done nothing with my life, but hey - at least im not gay/black/french/pakistani etc."
I feel more sorry for people who think like that tbh. I seriously think its their loss and id be more likely to subtly try and make them question their beliefs rather than hit out with a label of `racist`.

Former Member

Aladdin wrote:

Well luckily I have never been in such position but I have seen thousands of cases on TV where people have experienced bombings and suffered injuries or even lost a loved one, and they were perfectly capable of assuring everyone on TV that they didn't hold it against the race or people of the country in question because they knew it was the work of a few terrorists.

thousands ... so... don't you think there is thousands of people that think otherwise?

Aladdin wrote:

Do you really think it is normal behaviour to blame an entire nation or race for the actions of a few???

I have never said it was a normal behiavior, post traumatic stress by definition is a condition of no-normal behaviour...

Unless you think people should just act as normal after being raped, having their familly killed or stuff like that... After all come on, it's nothing do deal with, who cares you had a trauma, you must have a "normal behaviour"...

What is a "normal behaviour" anyway???

Former Member

nihilisticmadman wrote:

thousands ... so... don't you think there is thousands of people that think otherwise?

Maybe there are, maybe there aren't.

But even if they exist, they would be wrong to think that way. And that is a fact.

I have never said it was a normal behiavior, post traumatic stress by definition is a condition of no-normal behaviour...

Unless you think people should just act as normal after being raped, having their familly killed or stuff like that... After all come on, it's nothing do deal with, who cares you had a trauma, you must have a "normal behaviour"...

What is a "normal behaviour" anyway???

All of this a moot point. The immense majority of racists haven't experienced rape, murder or terrorist attacks by anyone for fuck's sake. They are racist because they are lowlife prejudiced subhuman scum. No more, no less.

Former Member

Aladdin wrote:

All of this a moot point. The immense majority of racists haven't experienced rape, murder or terrorist attacks by anyone for fuck's sake. They are racist because they are lowlife prejudiced subhuman scum. No more, no less.

I totally agree with you on that one.

But some of them did and it will be a discremination to say they are as bad as people with no good reason.