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I'm a fairly moderate conservative Man Of Kent. I only sound unhinged to you and Clandestine because you are both fanatical socialists.
Never voted for a Socialist in my life, dear boy.
I think that's the first fact (as opposed to rhetoric Clandestine) has posted on this topic
Not to mention of course the numerous posts of mine going back to 2002, each responded to by now long gone shallow minds (whom im sure you will find still patting each other on the back over at military.com) with similar derogatory retorts, which have been vindicated by time and events just as my analyses suggested.
Of course, ignorance has a way of maintaning its blissful chorus on any number of boards. Funny how the naysayers are so geared up for knee jerk responses toward any who dare suggest they inform themselves of the historic realities behind the issue that they dont even realise when they are endorsing the very antithesis of true democracy and social justice they claim to cherish.
So programmed they are oblivious to their duplicity.
What physical, real world evidence do you have that either of these things exist as part of a person?
Are you still a US citizen?
He called me a "Socialist". Proving my point in the process.
Realistic is what I seek, I think.
No, well what it is you see is you keep going on about "truth" and so forth, so i am kind of assuming that you've got evidence for all your assertions. I can't see any myself, so have to conclude that there is none.
What I think is happening is that there are two groups of schizophrenics arguing about their nutcase delusions. It's very hard to come to an agreement when you are arguing over things that don't exist.
You also talk about programming, yet you believe what you have been programmed to. You must do, because you believe in things that can't be seen, touched, tasted, smelled or felt.
No I’m not although I’m hardly the fanatical Zionist you seem to think I am. I was glad to see Israel withdraw from Gaza and would like to see the same happen in the West Bank – although not without the Palestinians fulfilling their part of the agreement and dismantling terrorist organisations. As well as supporting the State of Israel I support the creation of a Palestinian state.
In the history of the region I believe I take a fairly impartial approach; while I know you dislike Benny Morris’s personal political views I think his historical research and conclusions are sound. I think his thesis that the Palestinian refugee problem was not solely self-inflicted by the Palestinians but nor was it entirely caused by Zionist actions is far more plausible than either traditional historical view from both side that the other side is entirely to blame. Although I found some of Efraim Karsh’s challenges to Morris interesting. I will admit that I haven’t looked at 1967 or 1973 in as much depth as 1948 however. Although I bought Avi Shlaim's book the Iron Wall and intend to read that when I have more time. While I don't think I agree with Shlaim on everything I saw him speak and he made a lot of sense.
I see no point in providing exhaustive bibliographies when the naysayers demonstrate their failure to have even obtained and studied those few previously suggested. From there, the chain of references will suffice to keep those interested in understanding the requisites for any lasting peace busy studying for some time.
Of course, denial of the of the existence of everything, even human schemes and their historic realisation is one option. One with which I suspect youll find precious few outside of psych wards would concur. Still, if it floats your boat then happy sailing!
I asked for evidence. This should be really easy to provide - if there is any.
I am sorry, all I see is a lack of evidence for your assertions. The psych wards are full of such people. Your not in one because lots of other people share your delusions. Your still delusional.
I quite agree that " being "palestinan" or "jewish" are "human schemes", that is to say that they are entirely fictional. The major requisite for a lasting peace is a general rejection of the fallacy that you can be jewish or palestinian at all. Every group of individuals that abandon's belief for what can be proven makes leaps in all fields. Every group that retains fictions through the use of force by a minority is held back from progress.
This means stop pretending your in a group and start pretending your an individual.
You've built a huge inverted pyramid on top of ideas that you never even considered were false at their heart. Once some "lunatic" comes along like myself and points out that you've no evidence for the basic assertions that the rest of your thoughts are built upon, you're fucked. You can still hold them, but you have lost the claim to rationality.
Besides, I never claim that those things don't exist, I only ask for proof that they do. It amounts to the same thing because there isn't any, which is what all people who I ask the question realise somewhere inside I mean, how would you know the point I was driving at if you didn't realise the answer?
Neither does it obviate the fact that much effort has been exerted over generations in whitewashing or otherwise derailing (or failing that, villifying) any scrutiny of these historic realities by influential Zionist ideologues and those who profit from their fictions and the maintenance of the apartheid status quo of the state of Israel itself.
That any who turn the spotlight on their particularist, exceptionalist claims as consistent in principle with the same exceptionalist group ideology under which those they claim to represent suffered and died should be met with routine wails of "anti-Semitism" (or for Jewish critics, "self-hating Jew") shows how broadly successful that effort to program and control the populist mindset and the very terms of public discourse has indeed been.
Call the involved parties and the theatre of their conflict whatever you like, it doesnt change the rotten truth nor contribute to any just socially just solution.
Good, because mine's an evidential theory.
Yeah, it does because it reduces all of it to very simple one individual kills/harms/robs another terms, shorn of the rhetoric.
Murder of one man by another. Robbery of one man by another. By accepting terms like "zionist" "terrorist" etc you are allowing individuals to walk away from their personal responsibility for their actions. Joe Bloggs shot John Smith. is it wrong? Of course it is. Always. Get rid of the halfwit political labels and what have you got left? A bunch of murdering halfwit individuals who should be called what they are and not excused by group terms.
This mean fuck all. Who said what where. Stop using the political language and it all becomes clear. Bernie shot Bertie. Bertie robbed Bernie. What's Bernie's link to Bernadette got to do with it? Fuck all, that's what.
Yes, again, it's fictional. The man in the street doesn't know this. he cannot be allowed to know it, because it makes him an accomplice to crimes beyond imagining. He takes a benefit here, uses the law to protect his interest there. Would the average man in the street be willing to rob his neighbours? I doubt it. it's ok for him to use someone elses cozy fiction and not get his hands dirty though, isn't it?
The state of Israel does not exist. It will never exist. It's an idea. Tell me the name of a man who is willing to kill for a fiction? Lunatic, madman, sociopath. the state od Palestine does not exist. It will never exist. it's an idea. Tell me the name of a man who is willing to kill for a fiction?
Wrong. You call them by their names, and do not allow them the comfort of being in a group. You ask for proof when they say they are in one. one day peoplw will look back and view worshipping states as some now view the religious worshippers of Galileo's time. there's no difference. It's one man controlling another using a gun but hiding behind soft words and a cloak of legitimacy. Fire it off.
I am not anti semitic. It would have to exist first before I could hate it.
If eh deos itwill reallt fuck up my middles easte oolitics course ya know.
Se;fish bastard.
What did you expect when you chose a Middle East module?
Seriously, whatever happens now, should make the module so much more inetresting. This is the beauty of international politics, really.
Edited:
Remind me not to post in politics after a night out again!
This ever long argument here makes me laugh. There's always Cland -vs- Someone going on when the Middle East comes up.