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Unmarried and same-sex couples can now adopt

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Wasn't that once the case with other groups though? Such as mix-race parents?

    But there aren't many gays around, nevermind one's that want children.

    The mixed race thing was a taboo and there's quite a few now, it's not the same with gays.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Wasn't that once the case with other groups though? Such as mix-race parents?

    True, hence I didn't make a good argument. Although mixed-race parents and same-sex parents are very different. Mixed-race parents can provide exactly the same upbringing as parents of the same race. Race isn't relevant, it's not worth mentioning. I don't think it has any affect on upbringing. Those against mixed-race parents were simply put being racist. I don't think opposing same-sex couples adopting is homophobic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How very strange that none of you have noticed that kids spend 50% of their waking lives in the presence of men and women who have only the vaguest interest in them.

    Whether the parents are gay or not is probably irrelevent when they are being "educated" in human zoos.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    How very strange that none of you have noticed that kids spend 50% of their waking lives in the presence of men and women who have only the vaguest interest in them.

    Whether the parents are gay or not is probably irrelevent when they are being "educated" in human zoos.

    Kids learn most in their immediate infancy and from the house itself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nice to see the unwritten condemnation of single parent families in this thread...


    not really, we're sayings its unsuitable for adoption


    my mums brought me up great, how she always has and always will be my mum - im not adopted
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    I don't think I even implied it.

    Yes you did. "You need the balance of a mother and a father IMHO."
    turlough wrote:
    They do but the child bonds with those who brought them up. Who they familiarize themselves with the most. Having close bonds with two males or two females might mean future distrust with people of the opposite sex of their parents.

    What an absurd argument. By that argument, children of single parent families will have problems with the opposite sex and children with both a mother and a father won't. Patently not true is it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The ideal environment for children to be raised in is with a mother and a father in a stable relationship, probably married. I think anyone that doesn’t recognise that as the ideal is more concerned with being PC than the welfare of children. Saying that, as many single-parent families show that ideal is not the only possible environment and most children with a single-parent do fine, although I still think even a lot of single parents would recognise the benefits of a child having a mother and a father around.

    I don’t agree with same-sex couples being allowed to adopt. I know prejudice isn’t a sufficient reason but the fact is a kid with two dads or two mums is very likely to get bullied harshly. And I think a child with two same-sex parents would feel very left out given that it’s not the norm, it’s a pretty unusual upbringing, pyschologically I'm not convinced it'll do a lot of good for the child. A child should where possible be brought up by a mum and a dad, single-parent families occur because of circumstances such as divorce, bereavement - they're not brought about intentionally in most cases and so therefore while not the ideal they're acceptable. Same-sex parents are not the ideal and since same-sex parents would only become same-sex parents through deliberate means - and that they're not the ideal makes it unacceptable. If that makes any sense..


    Your argument amounts to nothing more than saying that the nuclear family is normal. Which, as we have seen, is not true.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Has anyone actually produced any proof yet that you need bother a male and female parent figure to develop properly?

    I see a lot of people saying this is the case but not one scrap of evidence yet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Has anyone actually produced any proof yet that you need bother a male and female parent figure to develop properly?

    I see a lot of people saying this is the case but not one scrap of evidence yet.


    most of us are saying IMO

    ideally a mother and father figure helps in viewing the world, i had my mum and her father(my granddad) which helped immensely

    as i was growing up there was things i felt i should ask my grandad about, and things i asked my mum about



    the adoption process is and should be very selective, however the bureaucracy should be removed from it as much as possible without affecting the selectivity



    NOONE has a right to have a child, its a privilege - why i'm against IVF for unmarried and lesbian couples
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think anyone that doesn’t recognise that as the ideal is more concerned with being PC than the welfare of children.

    I'm more concerned that me and my brother are fairly well balanced members of society despite that lack of parental input. I don't think the dual parent thing is important.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yes you did. "You need the balance of a mother and a father IMHO."

    Yes and what's that got to do with being the biological parent :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm more concerned that me and my brother are fairly well balanced members of society despite that lack of parental input. I don't think the dual parent thing is important.

    It's not necessary or overly important but ideal That's the argument I'm trying to make.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    It's not necessary or overly important but ideal That's the argument I'm trying to make.

    I don't think you can make that argument. What's it based on?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think you can make that argument. What's it based on?

    Read the thread. I made my argument, others made theirs.

    There are no scientific studies that say either way.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Yes and what's that got to do with being the biological parent :confused:

    Which is why I said "implied".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm afraid nothing in life is ideal...you could grow up with a mother and father, which some of you feel is a pre-requiste for developing a balanced view of life, but what happens if for instance the father was a self-confessed mysogist wo beat his wife...or not to be prejudiced, what if the mother beat the father...or what if the child is being abused, sexually or otherwise, by one or either parent...what sort of a balanced view does that give the children?

    I agree that children do need input from both sexes as they grow up, however this influence does not need to come exclusiely from parents...gay couples have family and friends of the opposite sex as well. At the end of the day the most important factors in bringing a child up are caring, nurturing, protecting and educating...and if social services feel that a gay couple can provide this, then why should they be discriminated against?

    Ideal situaions are all relative... :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Read the thread. I made my argument, others made theirs.

    There are no scientific studies that say either way.

    Yeah, but it must be based on something if you've come out with the opinion?

    Actually, I've just realised that out of my closest 10 friends, 6 of them come from single parent homes. All of them are well-rounded individuals.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally the only thing I would worry about was the kid being bullied at school. But then they can be bullied about school. I was bullied cos my ears stuck out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry that did not make any sense. I meant kids can be bullied about anything at school.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Unmarried couples should be allowed to adopt.

    Gay people should not.


    well kermit i think that gay people should be allowed to adopt they are no diffrent to any one else and they will still love the chid the same
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NOONE has a right to have a child, its a privilege - why i'm against IVF for unmarried and lesbian couples
    Why aren't you against IVF for married couples?

    What makes you think married couples make better parents than unmarried ones? Or same-sex ones for that matter?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the fact is a kid with two dads or two mums is very likely to get bullied harshly.
    Quick sterilise the ginger people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From reading all of this i wonder what year were living in, unmarried couples and gay couples should be allowed to adopt, aslong as thier suitable, just because they have to parents of the same sex doesnt make any difference, there are alot of children brought up by single parents, who dont have both role models, and theres nothing wrong with them. It just seems like homophobia.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From reading all of this i wonder what year were living in, unmarried couples and gay couples should be allowed to adopt, aslong as thier suitable, just because they have to parents of the same sex doesnt make any difference, there are alot of children brought up by single parents, who dont have both role models, and theres nothing wrong with them. It just seems like homophobia.
    Word.

    If I had a choice between a stable life with one loving single parent (or two same-sex parents) or a life with a depressed & stressed mum and dad who have only stayed together "for the sake of the children" but led a miserable and unhappy life, I know which one I'd choose.

    Each case should be judged individually. The number of parents around and their gender is irrelevant. End of.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Yes, of course they should.

    Like it or not, gay people cannot provide the correct setting in a home in which to raise children. Children need a mother and they need a father- not two mummies and not two daddies. For this very reason single people should not be allowed to adopt either.
    I disagree with needing both a mother and a father... I come from a single parent background and came out Ok (probably would be better if my father left completely with my upbringing), I think that a home with a loving parent or two is better than being tossed here and there to different care centres and foster families.

    I so far have no read anything valid (eg, reports by child psychologists, experiements ect apart from Bowlby... But hey, everybody knows that women should stay at home and that a male single parent can't do the job :yeees: ) to suggest that children need a mother and a father. Monogomy and the nuclear family are something we're socialised in to, not a necessity (in my opinion).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Why aren't you against IVF for married couples?

    What makes you think married couples make better parents than unmarried ones? Or same-sex ones for that matter?


    tbh on the whole im against IVF as i dont think we need to have more people being born


    im saying generally in my opinion that a child brought up under a married heterosexual couple gets far more opportunities for family time compared to a lone parent, and a more varied upbringing as a whole if they're heterosexual


    there's no right to have a child thats yours
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    there's no right to have a child thats yours
    Article 16.

    (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
    Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    You could argue this point... But as you've said, it doesn't entitle a person to their own genes being passed down.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Article 16.

    (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
    Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    You could argue this point... But as you've said, it doesn't entitle a person to their own genes being passed down.


    having a family doesn't equal having kids though :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nice to see the unwritten condemnation of single parent families in this thread...

    Not really.

    But can anyone sit there and say that a single-parent family is ideal? Of course they can't. Least of all single parents. Being a single parent doesn't make you a bad parent, to say so is ridiculous. But how many children would rather have preferred mummy and daddy to stay together in happiness? How many single parents would rather their partner had stayed?

    Since we're talking about adoption- where people are vetted- any arguments about "but what about wife beaters" are null and void. Especially as homosexual people are just as capable of domestic violence.

    I certainly aren't saying that gay people should have their children taken from them if they already have them, but if we are in a position to choose who gets adopted children- and we are- gay people should not be allowed to. Children need a mother and a father, as well as extended family, and two mummies or two daddies simply does not cut the mustard. An extended family does not replace having a mother and a father.

    Homosexual parenting is not ideal. It is nothing about how good the actual people are, but them being homosexual prevents them giving their children an ideal background. It has nothing to do with homophobia, much as Tatchell et al love to claim.

    With adoption we are in a position to choose an ideal. I think people are forgetting that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    But can anyone sit there and say that a single-parent family is ideal? Of course they can't.
    Can anyone sit and say that any married couple family is ideal?

    Of course they can't. Because these things must be judged on a case by case basis.

    Some married couples make good families- some don't. Same as all the other alternatives.
    But how many children would rather have preferred mummy and daddy to stay together in happiness? How many single parents would rather their partner had stayed?
    And how many children would have preferred daddy (or mummy) to piss off rather than make the whole family endure years of unhappiness?

    And no, I'm not talking about spouse-beating or abuse of any kind. A happy one parent home is infinitely more preferable than an unhappy two-parent household.
    I certainly aren't saying that gay people should have their children taken from them if they already have them, but if we are in a position to choose who gets adopted children- and we are- gay people should not be allowed to. Children need a mother and a father, as well as extended family, and two mummies or two daddies simply does not cut the mustard.
    What makes you say so? How do you know that, exactly?

    Homosexual parenting is not ideal. It is nothing about how good the actual people are, but them being homosexual prevents them giving their children an ideal background.
    What's 'ideal' anyway? Please define it.

    Seeing as most people, straight or gay, married or unmarried, together or alone, couldn't give children an 'ideal' background, it would seem that very few people who have adopted children until now should have been allowed to.
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