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Gays in the Military!
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In all honesty, suppose I wasn't taking care of my patients because I was too busy checking out nurses or flirting with female doctors? Suppose I was too busy having a tiff with my medical student girlfriend to bother with a cardiac arrest? It would be an outrage, I would be guilty of negligence, professional misconduct and would probably be struck off.
(Not that I have any patients yet of course...)
It's the same in any job - if you spend your time working on relationships instead of the job in hand, in most cases you will be disciplined. However, in most cases it just doesn't happen because people know the difference between when and when not to put everything to one side and get on with it.
Well if this is the case, lets talk about another profession where lives are at stake. Should women and homosexuals be banned from working in hospitals? After all, you don't want a couple to be splitting up when they're supposed to be working on a heart transplant together do you?
Beat me to it.
If you had women and men sharing the same quarters and living with each other 24/7 you'll end up with a scandal. If I had the chance of sharing quarters with a bunch of women I'd sign up today, why would gay men behave any different.
The ability of our armed forces shoudn't be based upon how tolerent they are, it should be based upon how effective they are in combat situations.
I agree that in a perfect world anybody with the desire should be able join the the military. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and the equality you're after will only server to weaken our forces.
"A 1993 Rand Report provided an exhaustive study on gays in the military and concluded that the U.S. military could lift the gay ban without detriment to readiness."
"Members of the Army Reserves and the National Guard who inform their commanders that they are gay are routinely converted into active duty status" - it seems that your proposal would be the one that actually weakens the armed forces...
Well I wouldn't feel very comfortable living with women 24/7, sharing the same quarters and showers. I wouldn't feel comfortable that some of my comrades had sexual relationships with other comrades. Same as with gay men.
Sex and sexuality can affecs and complicate comradery. I don't see how how can deny that!
Shall I do a poll?
You most likely would end up with a scandel if men and women shared quarters, yes. Why would gay men be different? Because unlike men and women sharing quarters, with gay men the attraction would only be one way. You would only end up with a scandal if two gay men were placed together, both fancied the other one, and both were unprofessional enough to let it go further than that (at which point they would be chucked out well before they got to the front line). The chances of someone leaving a post unguarded because he was wanking off his fellow soldier is minimal. Much less than a straight soldier leaving it unguarded whilst shagging a hooker (okay, maybe I've seen too many Vietnam war films).
I agree, soldiers shouldn't be picked on their tolerance levels, but on their ability to put everything about their personal lives aside and concentrate on the job they are paid to do.
In the real world this happens. Those professionals manage. I agree you probably couldn't.
Ah didums. When you grow up I'm sure you'll look back on your insecurities and laugh. Or cry.
So does a whole bunch of other things. What if some your comrades play poker with each other, but not you? that would affect and complicate comradery. What if one man has an affair with another man's wife?
Ok. One gay man per sqaud. :rolleyes:
Mixing gay men with other gay men is no different than mixing straight men with women. Surely you can see that?
Ah selectively quoting. A sign that your losing the debate?
I can see that, but I imagine that only one or two people per squad would be gay, therefore the chances of a 'scandal' are surely vastly smaller. Incidentally, what I wrote in the part of my response you failed to quote.
You're quite right., I'd be all up for living with a bunch of fit women, but not so much intrusting my life with other soldiers who have relationships with others
The army is quite different from any other occupation.
And I'm insecure about what exactly?
Just because other things may affect comradery doesn't mean that we should ignore anythng else that affects comradery?
It's an added complication. Can you deny that it isn't?
Nah, I'm just pickng at the stupid things you say.
You seem to forget that I agree with you that nobody shoudl be prevented from joing the military, in a perfect world of course.
But it isn't perfect.
With the addition of women in the military we've seen an increase in scandals. Can you deny that?
homosexuality - (edit) or sex in general
No, it means we shouldn't blow it out of proportion
I deny that it is a significant added complication. It is one of thousands - and a minor one at that.
How am I insecure about that then? Please elaborate?
Homosexulity isn't significant in most occupations. I would however think it's pretty significant when you share the same quarters.
If your arguing for gays in the military I would aslo expect to see you argue for unisex quarters in the military. Men and Women sharing showers and living quarters.
No you're not, you're using the age old method of those without a valid argument. Pick on a little bit of what I've said and ignore the rest. You couldn't even pick a whole sentence for God's sake. :rolleyes:
I can't deny that there has been an increase in scandals since the introduction of women into the military, but then I'm not the one making the statement. You said it, you prove it.
Fuck prooving it, do you or do you not agree that with the addition of women in the military there has been an increase in sex scandals?
the seperation of quarters in the case of men and women is to protect the individual from the group (i.e. harrasment or worse). Arguing for a seperation between gays and straights in quarters is arguing to protect an entire group from one or two guys. But I do get what ya mean, I would deffinatly be a little creeped out knowing I was showering with a gay man.
Oil rigs? Fire stations?
Hell, even in "professional life" I get to share hotel rooms with my straight co-workers. In my private life I've slept in the same bed as a straight woman on several occasions. I admit, I don't sleep naked on those occasions.
"Another soldier who served in Iraq said that in the first few weeks, bathing facilities were so scarce that people showered outside in the open, where even men and women could see one another."
why would u be creeped out?? My god, dont be so conceded. Do you think there checking you or something................ think about it, i mean come on its 2005...
What d'you mean fuck proving it? I will admit that I currently don't know whether there has been an increase in sex scandals in the military because I have no proof one way or the other. I could easily say that I do not agree with you, and I'd have as much proof as you've presented, but that wouldn't get us anywhere. However, I do know the gutter press in the country has a habit of making 'scandal' out of anything, and imagine that certain sections of it would have no problem using them to push an anti-women-in-the-military agenda.
I imagine a lot of guys would be, maybe for a couple of weeks. Until of course they realised that he isn't going to try and fuck you every time you have a shower.
Again I'm insecure how?
One of the favourite arguments against those who have anything negative to say agianst homosexuals is that they must be inesecure about their own sexuality.
What a load of bollocks.
Some people are straight, some are gay, some are men some are women. Thats life, each to their own.
Denying the fact that these variables can affect your life and those around you is stupid.
Ok. When there were no women in the military how many sex scandals invovling men and women were there?
I think the answers fuckign obvious don't you?
How comfortable would you feel sharing a shower with a collegue of the opposite sex?
How comfortable would you feel with you life resting in the hands of collegues that have 'issues' with each other.
I'm not saying that every gay man fancys every bloke, but I fail to see how gay men living with each other is different than men and women lviing with each other.