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Virgins?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    When you say virginity causes unhappiness, I suggest the reverse that unhappiness produces virgins. Much more logical in my view than your perverse reasoning.

    I've never denied unhappiness produces virgins. Abstinence can be a product of unhappiness at the same as further unhappiness is produced by abstinence. It's all inter-connected.
    You pass judgement on others based on your views. That's moralising, however you dress it up.

    No, I haven't done anything of the sort. You're drawn an inferrence, that's all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Here's one that ain't unhappy... I'm lovin' life at the moment and don't have self-esteem issues.

    Maybe some people do freak at the thought of having sex but it really doesn't bother me... It's not that I don't get turned on or fancy people, it's just that I haven't found anybody interesting and attractive yet.

    So you know a lot of post teenage virgins then? To be honest a lot of post teenage virgins wouldn't admit to wearing their V plates anyway, or wouldn't be open about it... So really, you could have met more happy virgins than sad ones.

    I know a few, knew more teenage virgins (17, 18, 19) when i was younger. They were pretty vocal and not particularly coy about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    No, I haven't done anything of the sort. You're drawn an inferrence, that's all.
    Rubbish! You've been making your point all the way through - virgins are sad losers. That's all you've had to say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Rubbish! You've been making your point all the way through - virgins are sad losers. That's all you've had to say.

    No, but it's pretty obvious you hold that belief yourself...although you might not like to think it ;)

    I can easily be considered a loser myself, so i'm not one to slag off others as such...people can't help the way they are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Semantics are a bitch, aren't they?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Being blunt, a guy of 20 who doesn't want to have sex with attrative women has serious problems. All of the people who i've come across who don't have sex at all by choice have serious personal and social problems. I've noticed their non-sexual behaviour is always accompanied by blatant low self-esteem, feelings of guilt, anxiety and poor social skills.
    :eek: Do you think I should see a Psychiatrist?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    people can't help the way they are.
    But surely by your logic, they'd stop being sad losers as soon as they had sex? You're not making much sense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    But surely by your logic, they'd stop being sad losers as soon as they had sex? You're not making much sense.

    No, I don't make that deduction.

    You're drawing an inference from what i've said based on your own personal view of virgins, although you probably don't even recognise it's a opinion you hold, so you're way off target here as i've already told you.

    The original point was - virginity shouldn't be heralded as some kind of superior lifestyle, and imho it's often symptomic of wider problems. I don't see that as particularly outrageous or controversial - just my opinion based on people I know and what I know of them. End of.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :eek: Do you think I should see a Psychiatrist?

    No.

    Just out of interest, what prevents you from seeking sexual relationships?

    And as I've already stressed, what i'm saying doesn't apply to everyone.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    I don't see that as particularly outrageous or controversial.
    You're still passing judgement on people based solely on their sexual activity. Seems a bit narrow minded to me.

    Oh, and don't put words into my mouth and tell me what my opinions are again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    But being an 'old' virgin is indicative of unhappyness. I'm not saying every such person is unhappy, but i know virgins of 19/20, all of them deeply unhappy with personal problems. If they 'choose' to wait, that's even more reflective of a general unhappy and highly sensitive person imo. There isn't any real reason, if you aren't religious, to not seek sexual relationship unless your very sensitive, self-conscious and/or lacking evolutionary drive.

    I agree with Captain Slog herel. Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions, not to mention generalising from a very few examples. When I met my boyfriend, he was 21 and a virgin. Not that he hadn't had relationships before, but they'd been fairly short term flings, and as he had some vaguely formed notion of wanting sex to 'mean something' or the girl to be 'special', I don't think he got close enough to any of his ex's to get that far. Although judging by how quickly we were messing about in bed (even though we didn't have full sex for a few months), I expect he got given the odd bj etc...

    Anyway, he's confident, life of soul of any social group, drinks, smokes, gets stoned...definitely was enjoying life looong before I came along and I certainly wouldn't call him "very sensitive, self-conscious and/or lacking evolutionary drive" :eek: Just didn't get round to sex for a while. I'm not saying he's the 'norm' either..really is there such a thing, anyway? There's certainly no reason to go around psychoanalysing 'old' virgins, as I'll bet they all have different reasons/circumstances or whatever. You can't fit them all into one box, or 2 or 3.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    You're still passing judgement on people based solely on their sexual activity. Seems a bit narrow minded to me.

    :banghead:

    Without judgement you can't form an opinion on anything, although I've never passed judgement of the kind you're implying. False assumptions yet again.
    Oh, and don't put words into my mouth and tell me what my opinions are again.

    You've already made presumptions over my morals and judgement, fuckwit - try practicing what you preach.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *shrug*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think i managed to spark a massive debate here :blush:
    maybe it should be moved to polictics and debate?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This thread is seriously boring. Please people just leave it.

    Spliffe - just drop it. If people are happy not chasing skirt around then that's cool. Just let them do it.

    It's not high and mighty to be a virgin nor is it base and filthy to not be one. Ok?

    Jesus tap-dancing Christ.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This thread is seriously boring. Please people just leave it.

    Spliffe - just drop it. If people are happy not chasing skirt around then that's cool. Just let them do it.

    It's not high and mighty to be a virgin nor is it base and filthy to not be one. Ok?

    Jesus tap-dancing Christ.

    Oh FFS - i've said that enough times :rolleyes: .
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    This thread is seriously boring. Please people just leave it.

    If you find it so boring you know what the answer is don't you?
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    People who often abstain from sex tend to also abstain from drugs. I believe the reasons for their abstinence from both are linked, and those reasons are often linked to aspects of their personality which may hold them back in life.

    Oh my. I hate to come into this thread just as it looks to be calming down. But I couldn't believe my eyes when I was reading some of your replies. Despite your protests throughout the thread, you seem to be incredibly judgemental and pig-headed when it comes to this topic.

    What is it to you if some people don't feel ready/want to leap headlong into using mind-altering substances and/or having sex? Do you find that personally offensive? Because you certainly seem to.

    I'm not sure I understand entirely why you've taken the "reverse moral high ground" (as someone perceptively put it), but drugs and sex do not automatically a "happy" person make. Why on earth anyone would think that is beyond me!? I'm annoyed with myself for taking this so personally, but obviously you've never known anyone with a serious drug problem. You almost seem to be promoting casual sex and offhand drug use as the fail-safe route to cool, well-adjusted teenage years and beyond. I'm not sure if that is your opinion; if it is then I think you should prise open that mind of yours just a little.

    To answer the topic; no, I'm not a virgin. But the value of [a person's] virginity has become more and more clear to me, the more perspective I get.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Just out of interest, what prevents you from seeking sexual relationships?
    A combination of lack of confidence and I can't be bothered putting in any effort.

    Plus I rarely have the opportunity to meet girls. I'm not much of a clubber and when I do go out I'm not delibarately "on the pull". I don't have the opportunity to meet girls at work and I have virtually no female freinds. I suppose I could try one of those "lonely hearts" adverts in the papers, but they seem to be full of single mums, which I really don't want to get involved with.

    The last time I met a girl I really fancied was at Uni, three years ago.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    briggi wrote:
    the value of [a person's] virginity has become more and more clear to me, the more perspective I get.

    Why is it supposed to be so 'special'?
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    What is it to you if some people don't feel ready/want to leap headlong into using mind-altering substances and/or having sex? Do you find that personally offensive? Because you certainly seem to.

    Err...please show me once where i've suggested people should use mind-altering substances and/or have sex?

    I'm not sure I understand entirely why you've taken the "reverse moral high ground" (as someone perceptively put it), but drugs and sex do not automatically a "happy" person make. Why on earth anyone would think that is beyond me!? I'm annoyed with myself for taking this so personally, but obviously you've never known anyone with a serious drug problem. You almost seem to be promoting casual sex and offhand drug use as the fail-safe route to cool, well-adjusted teenage years and beyond. I'm not sure if that is your opinion; if it is then I think you should prise open that mind of yours just a little.

    Please tell me where i've promoted "casual sex" and "offhand drug use" as the "fail-safe" route to "cool"? Go on, I defy you to show me.

    And don't lecture me about drug problems either, 'coz you're about as far off target as you can get.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not a virgin, but I regret losing my virginity to the person I lost it to, and I know that if I hadn't lost it to him, I would still be a virgin now. Although I am one of the people who thinks that sex is just sex, but that I would have wanted to lost my virginity to somebody who I knew I could totally trust and who respected me enough to not fuck with my head. Ho hum.

    Spliffie - you bullshit, sir. I know many a virgin who are a great deal happier than me, who lost her virginity at 15. I think shutting up now would be a good idea.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not a virgin, but I regret losing my virginity to the person I lost it to, and I know that if I hadn't lost it to him, I would still be a virgin now. Although I am one of the people who thinks that sex is just sex, but that I would have wanted to lost my virginity to somebody who I knew I could totally trust and who respected me enough to not fuck with my head. Ho hum.

    Spliffie - you bullshit, sir. I know many a virgin who are a great deal happier than me, who lost her virginity at 15. I think shutting up now would be a good idea.

    Wow. So your subjective opinion is different to mine. Congratulations! :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie and Skive- I have to take issue with the moralistic assertion that people who don't do drugs and promiscuity are "unhappy" and "socially retarded" people.

    It is all about personal choice. You are condemning the personal choice by saying that the only people that would make that choice are "freaks". That is taking the moral high ground, quite obviously- you are saying that your way of social interaction is the only justifiable way of interacting socially, and that those who don't do it that way are "unhappy freaks" shows a lack of moral understanding.

    Besides which, I have found that the people who lose their virginity young tend to be just as "unhappy", because they are seeking solace in sex. This is a particular problem amongst young girls, IMHO, who often seem to use sex as a way of defining themselves- if men want to have sex with them, then they are valuable people, and if they don't they aren't. But that's not to condemn their decision to have sex at a young age.

    So long as people are happy with their decision then that is not anything for anybody else to condemn.

    Personally I think Ballerina is showing the sort of earnestness that can only come with youth. That's not to say that the attitude shown is wrong- there is nothing wrong with being a virgin, just as there is nothing wrong with losing it when you're 14. Generally you reach adulthood and your beliefs change, you see more of the world and lose the earnestness. I don't even know if that is always a good thing.

    Virginity is a personal choice- keeping it or losing it doesn't show more "moral fibre" ion any objective sense. If having sex is important to you then have it, and don't not for moral reasons- if staying a virgin until you find the "right" person is important to you, then don't go and fuck around simply because everyone else is.

    I would also add that widescale drug use and sexual activity is actually statistically proven to be bad for you, more so for women than men. Which is why women tend to be more fussed about virginity then men are.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    Kermit wrote:
    Spliffie and Skive- I have to take issue with the moralistic assertion that people who don't do drugs and promiscuity are "unhappy" and "socially retarded" people.

    Here don't include me in that. Whilst I agree with a lot of what Spliffie says I do not share his experience that many virgins and non drug users are 'unhappy', and I charge you to find where I have asserted such a thing?

    And throughout Spliffie has sadi his opinion has been fornmed from his experience, which is fair enough.

    I'm merely pissed off with this 'virginity gives me a moral superiority' attitude.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    Here don't include me in that.

    Oh, sorry, I read yours and then Sopliffie's and you must ahve got caught up in it.

    If you didn't say that then fair enough.
    I'm merely pissed off with this 'virginity gives me a moral superiority' attitude.

    Fair enough, I don't think it does either. If it's important to you keep it, if sex is important then pork away. Nobody else gives a fig.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Spliffie and Skive- I have to take issue with the moralistic assertion that people who don't do drugs and promiscuity are "unhappy" and "socially retarded" people.

    It is all about personal choice. You are condemning the personal choice by saying that the only people that would make that choice are "freaks". That is taking the moral high ground, quite obviously- you are saying that your way of social interaction is the only justifiable way of interacting socially, and that those who don't do it that way are "unhappy freaks" shows a lack of moral understanding.

    I think you must be from an parallel dimension, Kermit, because I've said none of that. People who don't do drugs are socially retarded? What the fuck are you talking about? Where have I said that? :confused: And where have I called people "freaks"?

    No, I haven't said any of that.

    As for the rest of your post...yes, girls having loads of sex with loads of people at a young age (or any age for that matter) is often reflective of unhappiness. Most definitely the case. I wonder how that affects your logic on my supposed "morals" :rolleyes: .

    Women are more fussed about virginity than men are because of statistics? That's a pretty bizarre statement imo. Social environent and biological difference would be the standard reasons usually put forward i'd presume, although that's a whole different topic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok I've been following this without posting because I've been getting confused on what exactly you mean spliffie. To be honest with you mate i can understand how people have been getting the wrong impression because it is easy to read your posts on this and get the impression you take a reverse moral standpoint whether you meant to imply it or not.

    Going back over it all, as far as I can see this is your standpoint? ...
    Spliffie wrote:
    The original point was - virginity shouldn't be heralded as some kind of superior lifestyle, and imho it's often symptomic of wider problems. I don't see that as particularly outrageous or controversial - just my opinion based on people I know and what I know of them. End of.

    The first part of which I agree with.

    Unless I'm mistaken then ... your point is that people who remain virgins into their late teens/early twenties and/or people who are so strictly anti drugs that they refuse to associate with those who do them tend to have wider personal problems. And also that you don't hold this to be strictly true just that in your own personal experience the majority if not all the people you have met that fullfill the criteria have had the associated social problems?

    Sorry if this has been blatantly obvious to everyone all along and I'm being stupid for re-iterating it like this but it seemed everyone's getting crossed wires and I wanted to be sure I've got this straight.

    If this is so then whats the argument? It seems everyone's agreed that virginity is no basis for moral superiority and while you may not agree that virginity or abstinance from drugs is synonymous with wider personal problems (and I'd have to agree that I personally don't and have never seen a link between the two) Spliffie does seem to have made the point repeatedly that this is only an observation from his personal experiences.

    Have I totally missed the point or is this all just crossed wires? I'm a tad confused ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jon_UK wrote:
    Have I totally missed the point or is this all just crossed wires? I'm a tad confused ...

    Nope thats what I thought mate
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