Palistine vs Isreal

Former Member

I want to hear what U think, i have my opinion, so post yours plz

Former Member

what's your opinion then?

Former Member

I'll tell you what I DON'T think. I don't think religion was meant to be a tool for waging war. Yet a few of the major religions were responsible for quite a few atrocities in world history and sadly even modern day.

Teh_Gerbil

Lycander wrote:

I'll tell you what I DON'T think. I don't think religion was meant to be a tool for waging war. Yet a few of the major religions were responsible for quite a few atrocities in world history and sadly even modern day.

Straigt up.

Religion is abused. Israel would win a conflict in the same way we "won" Iraq war. But there are many who stand against. Big powerful nations too. Israel should remember it does have enemies such as Russia, never got on well...

Russians would keep arming the Arabic states like they do now. Israel should watch it's step... it's annoying a lot of people. Syria. Saudi. Pakistan. Iran and Iraq always hated it.

Former Member

Is much of the criticism of Isreal just anti semitism?

I've been having this argument with a Jewish lady in the US on and off for months now and recieved this in an Email from here today.

Why anti-Israeli can be anti-Semitic:

Israel, like any other country on earth, can have its policies criticized. Here's where criticism of Israel veers away from legitimate criticism and into bigotry:

1- when Israel is held to a higher moral standard than any other country on earth, and in particular a higher standard than her neighboring states.

2- when criticism scrutinizes Israel alone, failing to take into account the actions of neighbors, their incitement or terrorism.

3- when horrific human rights abuses in neighboring states are ignored or dismissed and Israeli actions are overly scrutinized.

4- when Israelis are presented as one-dimensional monsters.

5- when Israel's right to exist is questioned, but not Australia's, New Zealand's or that of other nations established recently with many immigrants from elsewhere.

6- when the death of about 50 Palestinians total in Jenin, with more than 30 of them armed members of terrorist organizations, is equated with the genocidal Nazi slaughter of millions of unarmed children and civilians.

7- when suicide bombings against Israelis are seen as qualitatively different than suicide bombings against civilians anywhere else in the world.

8- when the speaker becomes histrionic and compares Israelis to Nazis practicing genocide or Apartheid.

9- when the speaker doesn't like Jews but insists that he is just criticizing Israel.

I persoanlly think that the anti semitism card is played far too often.

Former Member

O.B wrote:

I want to hear what U think, i have my opinion, so post yours plz

general custom to offer yours first buddy.

Former Member

shifty wrote:

I persoanlly think that the anti semitism card is played far too often.

While i'd agree with that, i think it's unfair that the Jews should be denied a right to a homeland, afterall throughout history they've been oppressed and kicked out of everywhere they've been. They were even banned in England for a couple of hundred years!
The jews deserve a right to live and govern themselves traditionally to Jewish values, and it's understandable they want their state to be in their religious lands. It's a shame it came about as a result of shoddy management by the British (as part of our mandate after the first world war and collapse of ottoman empire, the land was promised to both the jews and the arabs) Unfortunately to create Israel would result in the dispossesion of Arab lands, and though i don't want to seem like i'm favouring either position over the other, i can't blame Israel for defending to the hilt something the people have strived for for so long.

Former Member

A Photograph Of Me wrote:

While i'd agree with that, i think it's unfair that the Jews should be denied a right to a homeland, afterall throughout history they've been oppressed and kicked out of everywhere they've been. They were even banned in England for a couple of hundred years!
The jews deserve a right to live and govern themselves traditionally to Jewish values, and it's understandable they want their state to be in their religious lands.

Too bad it happens to be the religious lands of other groups as well.

though i don't want to seem like i'm favouring either position over the other, i can't blame Israel for defending to the hilt something the people have strived for for so long.

yup

Former Member

AllAmericanRageJunky wrote:

Too bad it happens to be the religious lands of other groups as well.

Yep, which i'm sure contributes largely to the issue. You can't just partition Palestine, because there's always the argument about where Jerusalem lies, and anyway historically, partioning countries hasn't really worked (Ireland, Germany, Vietnam, Korea...i'm sure there's more)

In the end it's swings and roundabouts, if the worlds greatest thinkers can't come up with a solution that satisfies all, i'll be damned if i can.

Former Member

A Photograph Of Me wrote:

if the worlds greatest thinkers can't come up with a solution that satisfies all, i'll be damned if i can.

they aren't the worlds greatest thinkers, they're just the best leaders that money can buy.

Teh_Gerbil

AllAmericanRageJunky wrote:

they aren't the worlds greatest thinkers, they're just the best leaders that money can buy.

Wouldn't say that Either. Give me the same cash, I'll buy you a bunch of better leaders!

Former Member

Controversial. I didn't say leaders anyway

Teh_Gerbil

Well, the world's greatest thinkers aren't really thinking about the Israel-Palestine conflict... they are thinking about silly trivial matters to keep them from questioning the government most of the time.

Former Member

I don't think it could ever be resolved at least for a few generations, regardless of who was trying to do so, simply because neither side are willing to back down, but as with the conflict in Ireland, in the end people will get tired of conflict and struggle, and be more willing to negotiate.

Former Member

AllAmericanRageJunky wrote:

Too bad it happens to be the religious lands of other groups as well.

There have always been Jews living there - about 3% of the population before the zionists started immigrating. There were and are christian Palestinians as well.

I think the point is that it was/is the homeland of the Palestinians, and that many find themselves refugess after the Nakba of 1948 when over 400 Palestinian villages were ethnically cleansed and destroyed.

Furthermore, the Zionists first looked at establishing a homeland in Africa or South America.

20% of the population of Israel is not Jewish, and many of the remainder of the population are secular or atheist.

Former Member

Big powerful nations too. Israel should remember it does have enemies such as Russia, never got on well...

So that would be why Russia has hauled the Iranian ambassador in to explain what the hell their barbarous president meant by his remark?

Teh_Gerbil

The Matadore wrote:

So that would be why Russia has hauled the Iranian ambassador in to explain what the hell their barbarous president meant by his remark?

So that is why Russia is spying, and always has, heavily on Israel and continues to sell weapons to Nations opposing Israel?

America has called Sharron to heal a fair few times by the way. So they must disagree on everything?

Former Member

Teh_Gerbil wrote:

So that is why Russia is spying, and always has, heavily on Israel and continues to sell weapons to Nations opposing Israel?

And what does that prove? Israel spies on America, Jonathan Pollard being the most famous example.

Anyway you exaggerate Russia’s relevance, probably something to do with idolising Russia.

Former Member

I'd say that a whole load of 'allied' nations spy on each other, and will also sell arms to the highest bidder, regardless of human rights records or whatever.

Teh_Gerbil

A Photograph Of Me wrote:

I'd say that a whole load of 'allied' nations spy on each other, and will also sell arms to the highest bidder, regardless of human rights records or whatever.

Well, we've stopped that now recently. Thankfully.

Russia isn't a relevence herself, as such. Her military might is well... not mighty at all. It is however, selling laot of good stuff to other people. Russia isn't a great freind of Israel, becuase they tend to be rather Racist. Also, because of it's close allegiance to America. The Russians may not like the Arabs - but they sure hate the Jews more. Sigh...

It'll supply the arms... it just keeps out of the fighting these days.

I really think the fact is, Iran isn't a threat at all. Nukes won't make it anymore dangerous - it is aware if it uses them, it'll get the same in return. It just means no-one will Invade Iran, becuase it'll nuke them if they do. And America wants control of Iran like it has Iraq now - and if Iran can defend itself, then how will it do that?

Former Member

Religion? I know a lot of people play the anti-semitic card when debating Israel, but tbh, it's more of a country with substantial power abusing a "nation"that doesn't. It's wrong and something should be done about it.

Former Member

o.b

i am very intrested by the thoughts and opinions that have been expressed!
alittle sidetracking on the matters of russia and iran.

the main concern hear is UNDERTANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what i mean by this, i myself follow the religion of islam, and YES it is about religion, but then spams out. u see having a niebourgh, with more wealth, better lifestyle, better econnomy, is very hard to swallow, especialy if in the beggining PALISTINE belive the land was there's, so after how many suicide bombings and retaliation, to this day sickenss me. i dont see the humanity even in these posts, is 1 life worth more than another, somebody posted that 50 palastinians died, and isreali's are made to be seen as nazi's, SO, 50 people did die, did u over look this, no matter the reason, no country of any government has the right to do this, an if palastine are heading suicide bomers, then they have NO right in these atrocities either.

peace has been thrown out of the window, now the whole fiasco has been covered with politics, what does this all come under when concerning palastine, undertanding a nation of people, feeling suppresed because they see loved ones die, tanks rollling past homes, so feeling like they have their hands and feet tied down, young and some brainwashed palastinians lash out the only way they can, by commiting suicide, the word Jihad, and meaning has nothing to do with suicide so let me make that clear!!!!

it is the basis of respect too, i was watching a documentary, on BBC and it amused me so much, this was internal video's of meeting of the governement including sharon an the deputy, everyone, sharon was like a little baby, casting in every sentence TERROR, and Yaser Arafat this an Yaser that, their mutual hatred is probably the cause for peace being thrown out of the window, even recordings of Yaser Arafat in his compounds, the same thing, creatin personal beef when it includes nation, causes upraw to the whole community, just like Hilter,Churchill, and the rest that played their parts in lenghty wars.

i am not on anyones side, i feel sympathy and anger for both, but i can see a path to peace, disclaming that there wont be a change for genarations makes u a lathargic person, is the world scares of cohesion than war, i beolove so, but if people in Eritrea can live side-by-side, Christian, Muslim and Jewish people in peace, and in a developing country, no that sounds like a dream dont it, thats where i come from, lets HOPE that the Isreal and Palastinian ordeal will end in peace, the sooner the better!

thankyou