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'Win a boob job' advert is rapped

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I seem to remember seeing some research which showed levels of hormones and personality. Apparently boys even from an early age like loud noises etc and girls are opposite as a general rule. However it is a sliding scale between one extreme and the other and they found tomboy girls were likely to be very close to the middle of this scale.

    MOK that is what I am getting at though. I don't think women have any less of a chance in some jobs than others. Just because employment figures aren't 50/50 I don't think it instantly follows that one gender doesn't have same opportunity.

    Poilitics to me has always seen like a bit of a gentlemans club. I am less convinced it is soley because of gender and more because they aren't one of the club.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    But for some people they have a real bad time with how they look and are very self concious and it can affect their whole life in a major way.
    I didn't say it's no big deal, I never said that. But I'm saying that it's a mental problem which can be cured like many others.
    What you're saying sounds to me like saying people with eating problems should have some kind of surgery (if it was possible) to make their metabolism faster. Sure it would work, but it won't have solved their eating problem; only given them a way to keep having it without causing themselves trouble.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MOK that is what I am getting at though. I don't think women have any less of a chance in some jobs than others. Just because employment figures aren't 50/50 I don't think it instantly follows that one gender doesn't have same opportunity.

    You will never get the 48/52 split which refelcts the gender divide in this country, I think everyone agrees that, but a 94/6 split stinks.

    There are some jobs where being female will go against you, such as a building site. Purely on the basis of what a wome's capability may be considered.

    I am also happy to make the point that, in politics, sometimes it's the voters who have a say. However, it is not unheard of for a selection panel to consider the childcare arragments for a female to be relevant and so not to choose her.
    Poilitics to me has always seen like a bit of a gentlemans club. I am less convinced it is soley because of gender and more because they aren't one of the club.

    How is it that you have described it there. A "gentleman's club"? Doesn;t that tell you something.

    Perhaps you should read what Edwina Currie has to say about her first few months as an MP...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    boys tend to grow up to have a facination to play and tinker with things as a full time hobby - that isnt conditioning, ive jsut been facinated by computers like my friend were with cars, building things etc like i have a facination with chemistry etc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Poilitics to me has always seen like a bit of a gentlemans club. I am less convinced it is soley because of gender and more because they aren't one of the club.

    The key word there is "gentleman".

    Men from "working class" backgrounds can- and do- enjoy long and successful political careers; Prescott is deputy PM, for instance. He's a cunt, but he's still from a poor background in a poor city.

    The fact that there has only ever been one female PM, and only one woman who has come close to being PM, is rather telling IMHO. Especially when politicians like Mo Mowlam and Widdecombe enjoyed such large levels of popular support.

    There has been research shown that gender roles are partly genetic- I remember seeing a TV programme about a boy who lost his genitals as a very small child, only days old, and was raised as a girl instead. He was depressed because he felt he was wrong- he was attracted to girls, he wanted to act like a boy, etc etc. But at the same time think about it- conditioning starts the day the child is born. Boys wear blue, girls wear pink and frilly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The point I am trying to make is it's not just women it's many different types of people discriminated against at once. It's not a big conspiracy against women it's against a whole range of people and women just happen to be part of that range. Though I do think it's a valid time to take things like children into consideration. But not because of gender nesscesarily. I wouldn't expect to see a house husband get elected as an MP. Of course this doesn't apply to all women.

    However MP's are just one example of a job. I can't see any real evidence of women being discriminated against in normal jobs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lets start with women treated appallingly in science. 2.6% of science lecturers are women, and only 25% of female graduates find their first employment in the science field.

    You carry on believing that there isn't systemic racism and sexism in this country if you want to. The proof, alas, is quite the opposite.

    As dessert, lets discuss how married women can't get jobs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The point I am trying to make is it's not just women it's many different types of people discriminated against at once. It's not a big conspiracy against women it's against a whole range of people and women just happen to be part of that range. Though I do think it's a valid time to take things like children into consideration. But not because of gender nesscesarily. I wouldn't expect to see a house husband get elected as an MP. Of course this doesn't apply to all women.

    However MP's are just one example of a job. I can't see any real evidence of women being discriminated against in normal jobs.
    Maybe you haven't worked in a bar then.

    I think personally that sexism is much more covert before. There are people that are far less likely to take on women because they're likely to take maternity leave... Look at the jobs that are stereotpically male, then those that are stereotypcally female. Look at the proportion of men sudying masters degrees in proportion to women...

    I also heard off a politics lecturer that marriages are far more likely to break down if the woman has been in higher education. In every relationship, be it at work, be it socially, be it sexual there is a dominant and a submissive, perhaps to a small degree... But then to a larger degree too. Women tend to be socialised in to this role, from the toys they play with when they're little to the media that tells them to preen themself like a bird.

    Of course society is slowly changing and it probably never will be completely egalitarian, somebody will alwas be left behind. men are starting to have to groom theselves and look good too... Women are lifting weights down the gym and joining clubs... They're even recognised as being sexual creatures these days.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe you haven't worked in a bar then.

    I think personally that sexism is much more covert before. There are people that are far less likely to take on women because they're likely to take maternity leave... Look at the jobs that are stereotpically male, then those that are stereotypcally female. Look at the proportion of men sudying masters degrees in proportion to women...

    I also heard off a politics lecturer that marriages are far more likely to break down if the woman has been in higher education. In every relationship, be it at work, be it socially, be it sexual there is a dominant and a submissive, perhaps to a small degree... But then to a larger degree too. Women tend to be socialised in to this role, from the toys they play with when they're little to the media that tells them to preen themself like a bird.

    in the words of borat "you find me a woman with brains i find you a horse with erm wings" :lol:

    seriously though maternity leave and paternity leave should be equal in length, or there should be a total amount allowed of both together so the parents can decide for themselves :) like say woman has first few months then the father has next few months
    the lack of equal rights for parents to time with their child is the problem

    and like anything, its a mix of conditioning and natural drive on how someone turns out, otherwise new ways of looking at things wouldnt happen
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seriously though maternity leave and paternity leave should be equal in length

    When a man has go recover physically from childbirth I will agree with this, until then I think that there should be a difference.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think men being at work during the day prevents them from taking an active parenting role.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It does mean that they miss out on a huge part of their child's early development.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Science is hardly a valid argument. Girls don't choose to take science as an A-Level choice on average so there will obviously be less with a degree in that field. That's common sense and from what I can see in that article a misuse of statistics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh, but of course.

    Anything that shows you're talking bunkum is a "misuse of statistics".

    Lets just bury our heads and pretend that racism and sexiusm is a lot of tosh, eh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Oh, but of course.

    Anything that shows you're talking bunkum is a "misuse of statistics".

    Lets just bury our heads and pretend that racism and sexiusm is a lot of tosh, eh?

    Well what about number of men on a fashion degree?

    If girls CHOOSE on average to not do A-Levels in sciences then I would think any fool could tell there would not be a high proportion of them doing degree's in science and even less lecturing at university.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When a man has go recover physically from childbirth I will agree with this, until then I think that there should be a difference.

    erm the time for the body to recover from child birth, is nothing in time compared to the paid legal right to maternity leave which is 6 or 9 months, so id assume under an total time off system (as i coin it) the mother would intially take the time off to recover and look after the baby for up to half the total time off, and then a bit later on the father could spend some time with their little one for the 2nd half

    and if it's a physical recovery i'm sure most docotrs would be happy to give a medium term sick note

    you cant honestly say thats unfair? and i'd think it would help remove the stigma of women getting made redundant for having a kid effectively

    on a side note, some doctors now think a woman should get back into normal activity as soon as its physically permitting (ie only a bit of overall soreness/tiredness) remaining, and similarly when she pregant as well as long as she dont push herself too much - just an off note i might add
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    erm the time for the body to recover from child birth, is nothing in time compared to the paid legal right to maternity leave which is 6 or 9 months, so id assume under an total time off system (as i coin it) the mother would intially take the time off to recover and look after the baby for up to half the total time off, and then a bit later on the father could spend some time with their little one for the 2nd half

    and if it's a physical recovery i'm sure most docotrs would be happy to give a medium term sick note

    you cant honestly say thats unfair? and i'd think it would help remove the stigma of women getting made redundant for having a kid effectively

    on a side note, some doctors now think a woman should get back into normal activity as soon as its physically permitting (ie only a bit of overall soreness/tiredness) remaining, and similarly when she pregant as well as long as she dont push herself too much - just an off note i might add
    What a load of bollocks. :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    What a load of bollocks. :lol:


    yeh that last part personally i think is bollocks, but on the rest of it.....


    maternity leave is like 9 months, and its not there for physical recovery, its there for mums to bring, thus reinforcing the stereotpye youd be better off hiring a guy long term to work for you as he wont leave and become a baby factory part time

    having a total time off system is the only way of getting about this as if a parent dont want to spend loads of itme with the kid they can work etc etc you get me
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's nothing to prevent fathers taking unpaid leave if they so wish, but why on earth should the State pay for extended paternity leave? We're running out of skilled workers as it is without half of them on leave.

    Why not bereavement leave, or marriage leave, or study leave? Goodness me, there was a time when an individual could decide how he would spend his waking hours without the government sticking its oar in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    There's nothing to prevent fathers taking unpaid leave if they so wish, .

    Isn't there? :confused:

    How about getting sacked?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Isn't there? :confused:

    How about getting sacked?
    They'd need the permission of the employer of course. That goes without saying, surely?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well yes, but would they get it? In many (if not most) cases they would not and that is why the govt has a role........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'll confess my ignorance of the precise laws, but I know people who have taken unpaid leave for various reasons without major problems from the employer.

    What I object to is an expansion of the social security system to allow dads to have excessive time off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with you generally.

    I was just pointing out that the idea that people already have substantial flexibility in their working hours is not true for many people......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well what about number of men on a fashion degree?

    Plenty of them.

    And its funny you should mention the fashion industry, given that just about all the top designers are, er, men.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Plenty of them.

    And its funny you should mention the fashion industry, given that just about all the top designers are, er, men.

    Sociology, Psychology, Fashion are all examples of degrees that from what I can see have far more women studying them than men. Is that down to institutional sexism. I think you are reading predjudice into places where there isn't any.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But only 2% of all lecturers being female? Is that me "misreading" the situation?

    And as I said about fashion, if fashion is such a female degree, why is it that just about all the leading fashion deisgners employed by the fashion houses are men?

    As I say, if you want to keep denying everything that is planted right in front of your face, then feel free to. I suspect you might change your mind a bit when your girlfriend tries to get a job in her chosen career field.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    But only 2% of all lecturers being female? Is that me "misreading" the situation?

    And as I said about fashion, if fashion is such a female degree, why is it that just about all the leading fashion deisgners employed by the fashion houses are men?

    As I say, if you want to keep denying everything that is planted right in front of your face, then feel free to. I suspect you might change your mind a bit when your girlfriend tries to get a job in her chosen career field.

    Of course its misreading the situation. I am in a year of 100 people of which 5 are female on my course. This is in no way unsual and in college only one girl applied to do the Computing course at A-Level. From this it follows on that out of about 90 academic staff in my department 9 are female. It's hardly surprising.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course its misreading the situation.

    20% of undergrads are female, so to an extent you have a point.

    Still doesn't explain away an 18% difference though.

    As I say, i suspect you will see things differently in a few years, when you and your partner are out trying to get work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    20% of undergrads are female, so to an extent you have a point.

    Still doesn't explain away an 18% difference though.

    As I say, i suspect you will see things differently in a few years, when you and your partner are out trying to get work.


    changes in society gradually fileter through to certain professions, and up to 10-15 years ago most people who done postgraduate studies were men
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