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should poland leave the EU

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Matadore wrote:
    Failing as in : irrelevent. Militarily, economically, politically - the governments of what is now the EU have been declining in importance ever since they decided to hurl themselves against each other in WW1.
    LOL, you have such incredibly warped view of things... talk about blinded by prejudice.

    Militarily? Given that the combined forces of the EU are much stronger than Britain's, I guess Britain is one of the most insignificant and failed nations around- not worth bothering with. Right?

    Let alone the rest of the world of course. Given that no nation other than the US is stronger than the combined EU forces, the entire world must be 'failing' and in decline according to you...

    LolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLollolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLol
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    Strategic politics, but its not just the USA - its India, China, Japan, Australia and the other Pacific Rim nations.
    Yes, formidable adversaries next to the EU indeed...


    A link with China would be better than flogging the dead horse of European integration.
    Blimey, now I've seen it everything. Your bigotry and hatred towards continental Europe is such that you're prepared to go to bed with your other obsession, the commies.


    What about it? THe only financial power worth anything in the EU is here in the City of London - which by the way is about to be snuffed out by Euro regulation. As for the Euro - forget it - it wont last 10 years.
    Little more than wishful thinking, that...


    THe news which says that the state is now requisitioning close to 50% of the nations wealth for its own purposes at the expense of everything that keeps the economy afloat.
    And given that the country is at an infinitely better shape that it has ever been under the useless Tories, I'd say the tactic's working. Wouldn't you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    talk about blinded by prejudice.

    Predjudice has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    read this

    Europe doesnt have a military to speak of. THe only country with any real weight in foreign affairs is the UK - and then only because it has the ear of the hyperpower.
    combined EU forces,

    What 'combined EU forces'?
    LolLolLolLolLolLolLolLolLollolLolLolLolLolLolLolLo lLolLolLolLolLol

    Do you need some medication?
    Yes, formidable adversaries next to the EU indeed...

    Competitors - who are quickly leaving the geriatric EU in the dust.
    Your bigotry and hatred towards continental Europe

    Where have I displayed any of those? This is a debate without predjudice - only cold hard facts.
    Little more than wishful thinking, that...

    WHat is? The fact that without the city of London the EU has essentially no financial services industry? Or the fact that the sclerotic, inflexible, frankly ridiculous notion of a Europe wide single currency wont last out the next decade?
    And given that the country is at an infinitely better shape that it has ever been under the useless Tories, I'd say the tactic's working. Wouldn't you?

    THe economy is not in good shape. Brown has you hoodwinked - in the long term Britains economy has been set on the European path - with potentially disasterous consequences for the nations wealth.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Your bigotry and hatred towards continental Europe is such that you're prepared to go to bed with your other obsession, the commies.

    Few Eurosceptics actualy hate Europe, we are just tired of the European Union controlling us. Can you understand that?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Matadore wrote:
    Predjudice has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    read this
    Yes, the opinion of one economist whose summary subheadline starts with "the Left must wake up".

    A very unbiased and balanced analysis, that.


    Europe doesnt have a military to speak of.
    Do you know but anything at all about the military? :confused:

    If Europe doesn't have a military to speak of, then nobody else other than the US does.

    Which means by your reasoning that the entire world other than the US is a failed disaster seconds away from collapsing.
    THe only country with any real weight in foreign affairs is the UK - and then only because it has the ear of the hyperpower.
    Not really, no. The UK cannot control the US any more than other nations do. The special relationship amounts to the US saying 'jump' and Blair asking 'how high'.

    At least the EU has shown some backbone- more than it can be said of the UK- in international affairs. In fact, the EU has saved Britain's bacon in more than one occasion- for instance when it forced the bully US to remove the steel tariffs by threat of retaliation. Proof positive Matadore that far away from your ideals, the EU has in fact far more power and influence than Britain alone.
    What 'combined EU forces'?
    Er.. the combined forces of EU members.


    Competitors - who are quickly leaving the geriatric EU in the dust.
    In which parallel universe is that happening? :confused:


    Where have I displayed any of those? This is a debate without predjudice - only cold hard facts.
    Constantly, over the course of the last few years. From suggestions that Europe is somewhat a rabid anti-semite hellhole populated by racists and Nazis to claims that it is a failed economic wasteland...

    Given that such assertions couldn't be any further from the truth if you tried, I can only assume you are making it from a position of total ignorance driven by an unhealthy phobia/hatred of the place.

    I can only recommend, not for the first time, that you arm yourself with a backpack, leave the prejudices at home, and spend not fewer than 6-8 months travelling through continental Europe. You might discover a thing or two.


    WHat is? The fact that without the city of London the EU has essentially no financial services industry? Or the fact that the sclerotic, inflexible, frankly ridiculous notion of a Europe wide single currency wont last out the next decade?
    The latter. Wishful thinking. Just as the oh-so-fucking boring doomsday predictions that the EU is about to collapse we've been hearing for decades now from the nay-sayers.

    As it happens, every last prediction made I can remember (from the euro failing to launch, to causing untold chaos and confusion, to the markets melting, etc etc etc) has miserably failed to materialised.

    That doesn't stop the nay-sayers from repeating old claims and making new ones... being their main hobby in life by the looks of it.


    THe economy is not in good shape. Brown has you hoodwinked - in the long term Britains economy has been set on the European path - with potentially disasterous consequences for the nations wealth.
    The economy is in good shape. One day will take a turn for the worse- nothing last forever at the end of the day; not here, not in the USA, not anywhere. But the fact remains that the economy has been and still is in better shape today under Labour than it has ever been under any other government in modern history.

    As for being synchronised with Europe, I can't see why. We still have a different currency, bank and different rates do we not?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WHat is? The fact that without the city of London the EU has essentially no financial services industry?

    Oh dear, mat's ignorance shines through with blinding clarity once again...

    *ahem* seems you've conveniently ignored Luxembourg, which far surpasses the City of London for global financial services. Nevermind that it also has the highest per capita income in the world.

    Oh yes, Europe is simply crumbling...whatever shall we do! :rolleyes: :lol:

    Edited to add:

    Of additional interest to this supposedly dire indictment of a crumbling Europe seems to be the IMF's 2005 nominal GDP index which, if one listens to the all knowing Mat, strangely puts Europe ahead of even the almighty US.

    IMF Global GDP Rankings

    As for per capita GDP, Al should love this... (Note how many "geriatric" EU countries surpass the UK)

    IMF Per Capita GDP Rankings
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    london has a higher per head GDP than luxembourg, 61,000 euros per capita while luxembourg is at around 40k us.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    False minime, try again....

    Luxembourg is the one ranked at close to 60K per head. Look at the indices provided above and enjoy your humble pie...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are right. It was false. More up to date info has shown me that luxembourg's GDP is 58k US per capita.
    Source

    London's is 61,516 euros.

    Source

    exchange rate = 1.2 euro to a dollar...

    Source
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Given that no nation other than the US is stronger than the combined EU forces, the entire world must be 'failing' and in decline according to you...

    China tbh mate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah yes minimi, you are right as far as city of london GDP goes. Unfortunately as countries go, one city does not the national GDP make. Luxembourg's GDP is national, your comparison is thus apples and oranges.

    The indices I have provided above sufficiently show mat's ongoing anti-Europe tirades to be rooted in wishful thinking alone.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting figures. Thanks Clan :D

    But no matter. They must clearly be a mirage... a false reading that doesn't reflect the impending economic collapse (any minute now... really... wait... almost there...) EU countries are headed for.

    Oh well... enjoy it while it lasts old friend ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh btw minimi, seems i must correct you again. It is most certainly not €1.2 to the dollar, but vice versa. The Euro has long been stronger than the dollar.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, silly me. If it wasnt Luxembourg would have a larger GDP per head than london :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Do none of the current EU members have the death penalty?

    I *believe* you'll find that EU law prohibits the death penalty. In Englands case, that meant an end to hangings for treason or piracy, of which we had quite a lot in the 80's and early 90's.

    I don't see the problem with having the death sentence available to a court, but then I'm in favour of publicly lashing criminals, life to mean life (along with prisoners to server exactly the number of years they're sentenced to), and hard labour jail sentences.

    Gay rights is a sensitive issue, but many perfectly normal and respectable people view homosexuals as sick. Granted catholics don't fall under the heading of normal (neither does any member of any religion), but it's hardly a revelation that catholics think it's a sin. I'm surprised that it was ever legal in the first place.

    Turkey has no place in the EU, because most of the country is in Asia. Unless of course, our leaders have decided to bring about the creation of Eurasia.

    I'm totally against the EU. It's leading us down the road to a one world government, which on paper, is the best thing for the human race. Unfortunately, our species has a nasty habit of electing self serving, devious, sinister people to govern, instead of putting statesmen in power.

    Root
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh dear.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    root wrote:
    I you'll find that EU law prohibits the death penalty. In Englands case, that meant an end to hangings for treason or piracy, of which we had quite a lot in the 80's and early 90's.



    Root
    can you explain what on earth that is supposed to mean?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    root wrote:
    of which we had quite a lot in the 80's and early 90's.

    WTF!

    Where did you get that absurd claim from...the last death penalty here was in the 60's if memory serves me correct.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    WTF!

    Where did you get that absurd claim from...the last death penalty here was in the 60's if memory serves me correct.

    If your memory is wrong, then so is mine. I was being sarcastic, pointing out that we didn't really lose much in terms of the courts actually handing down sentences in real cases. I apologise to you, and also to morrocan roll - I should have added an appropriate smiley to make my sarcasm clear.

    Root
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    root wrote:
    Gay rights is a sensitive issue, but many perfectly normal and respectable people view homosexuals as sick
    Not quite. Anyone who view homosexuals as sick is, in fact, a cunt.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Matadore wrote:
    Your threads are stupid. Its just one or two lines of explanation and then a link to the bbc website.
    No they're not... It's a debate topic. If you don't like it then don't read it.... How many threads for discussion have you put up on the boards?
    Gay rights is a sensitive issue, but many perfectly normal and respectable people view homosexuals as sick.

    No it isn't... Your views on minority groups are conditioned by your environment. If people are brought up and educated about homosexuality from a young age then it's unlikely that 'normal' people will see them as 'sick'.

    Granted catholics don't fall under the heading of normal (neither does any member of any religion), but it's hardly a revelation that catholics think it's a sin. I'm surprised that it was ever legal in the first place.

    What is your definition of 'normal' as you don't seem to make much sense. Why are catholics not 'normal' then?

    I *believe* you'll find that EU law prohibits the death penalty. In Englands case, that meant an end to hangings for treason or piracy, of which we had quite a lot in the 80's and early 90's.

    A lot of people were hung in the 80's and 90's? Like who?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    -[MoonRat]- wrote:
    What is your definition of 'normal' as you don't seem to make much sense. Why are catholics not 'normal' then?

    I called anyone who is religious abnormal. Science explains how we got here, science will take us where we're going. Believing in some fairy tale about there being a god is plain silly.
    -[MoonRat]- wrote:
    A lot of people were hung in the 80's and 90's? Like who?

    I feel that I clarified this point immediately after 2 other posters raised that same question. If you feel that my clarification lacked sufficient information, I'd be happy to expand. That's not sarcasm btw.

    Root
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    root wrote:
    I called anyone who is religious abnormal. Science explains how we got here, science will take us where we're going. Believing in some fairy tale about there being a god is plain silly.
    So where does science say that religious people are 'abnormal'?

    That really makes no sense...


    I feel that I clarified this point immediately after 2 other posters raised that same question. If you feel that my clarification lacked sufficient information, I'd be happy to expand. That's not sarcasm btw.

    Root

    No, I was asking for links, sources ect

    I'm studing human rights and politics so it's interesting for me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    -[MoonRat]- wrote:
    No, I was asking for links, sources ect

    I'm studing human rights and politics so it's interesting for me.

    <very confused> I was being sarcastic about anyone being hung in the 80's and 90's. Ergo, there are no links, sources, etc to show that English or Welsh courts handed down the death sentence.

    I haven't said that science calls religious people abnormal. I said that science holds all the answers. Science disproves the fairy tale theory of god. I think religious people are abnormal for being so weak that they have an absurd need to believe in some all-powerful being watching over them. It's sickening to listen to the garbage people talk about god when something goes wrong.

    5 kids tragically lost their lives in my town a few days ago. They were drunk (a criminal offence), they were driving a stolen car (a criminal offence), they tried to get away from a pursuing police car (a criminal offence). The driver lost control and crashed. God didn't reach down and give the car a nudge. The driver wasn't competent to drive the car at the speed it was going. Their criminal actions cost them their lives, not god having some divine plan for them.

    Wake up and look around - there is no god.

    Root
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    root wrote:
    <very confused> I was being sarcastic about anyone being hung in the 80's and 90's. Ergo, there are no links, sources, etc to show that English or Welsh courts handed down the death sentence.

    I haven't said that science calls religious people abnormal. I said that science holds all the answers. Science disproves the fairy tale theory of god. I think religious people are abnormal for being so weak that they have an absurd need to believe in some all-powerful being watching over them. It's sickening to listen to the garbage people talk about god when something goes wrong.

    5 kids tragically lost their lives in my town a few days ago. They were drunk (a criminal offence), they were driving a stolen car (a criminal offence), they tried to get away from a pursuing police car (a criminal offence). The driver lost control and crashed. God didn't reach down and give the car a nudge. The driver wasn't competent to drive the car at the speed it was going. Their criminal actions cost them their lives, not god having some divine plan for them.

    Wake up and look around - there is no god.

    Root
    what a very strange view you have of religous belief!
    as for science ...they are as baffled now as they were a hundred years ago regarding how the universe came to be ...how life supposedly appeared from non life.
    the spontanious generation of life from inanimate objects is a very very old theory ...which science finaly put to rest over a hundred years ago but still people cling on to this unscientific nonsense.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On my first ship, one of the Polish officers said he was pleased his country was joining the EU because there was a good chance his wages would go up. the Second Engineer then pointed out this would mean the shipping companies would start looking away from Poland for staff. A few months later and I read in the NUMAST Telegraph that on another ship (operated by a different company) they had sacked the Polish crew and replaced them with Ukranians.
    The EU may not neccesarily be good for all Poles.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    More like scumbag tightfisted employers are bad for the Polish people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why are they scumbags?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Assuming the decision was purely economical, because they have deprived people of their livelihoods purely to maximise profits?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Business try to minimise their costs, which means cheaper prices for the rest of us - seems good to me.

    If some had their way we still have people down the pits in horrendous conditions, mining coal at prices which the average millionaire would struggle to afford (never mind the pensioners), rather than moving to a high-tec, high skilled economy.

    The greesy ones aren't neccessarily the employers, but the employees who think they have jobs for life, never mind what it costs the rest of us.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Business try to minimise their costs, which means cheaper prices for the rest of us - seems good to me.

    They try to maximise their profits, its not quite the same thing. Whether it leads to a reduction in the price is not a given. Even if it does, we often pay in other ways, like increased social problems due to unemployment, poverty etc.
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