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Discussion of drugs with non users...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Question: Do any of you ever feel frustrated that others will not engage into a sensible, reasoned and rational debate about drug use, when all other topics seem to be ok?
ok guys this might be a bit of a rant but i'll try and hone it into a point before the end
.
Basically, was talking with flatmates (all non drug users) and we had spent the evening debating all kinds of issues including; the human right to reproduce, compulsory parenting classes and religion.
One of our number bought up the fact that she was shocked that a freind of hers had smoked pot and then proceeded to state; 'Yeah i was a bit surprised, but its not as if he did E or anything, otherwise i would have just slapped him and said what are you doing you idiot?'. I then proceeded to interject because i felt that in view of the logical and reasoned form previous discussion had taken, this girl was being a bit of a mug about this.
As SOON as the issue was raised; people looking at the floor, not talking, not getting involved, not asking questions, uncomfortable. She cut me off and proceeded to say 'Yeah mike i know you can argue this but not everything i am about is rational so you'll have to accept it'. I then told her that if she was going to say that i would challenge her and if she couldnt explain it i reserved the right to point out the errors in what she was saying.
My point is; we had just debated some really contentious issues, exchanged views and had a rational discussion. AS SOON as drug use is mentioned, people suddenly just wont pipe up and look pensively with the unspoken consensus that 'everyone knows drugs are baaaad'.
I am not starting this thread to debate the individual merits of substances, in fact in this case i was playing devils advocate a bit but heres the question.
Do any of you ever feel frustrated that others will not engage into a sensible, reasoned and rational debate about drug use, when all other topics seem to be ok?
ok guys this might be a bit of a rant but i'll try and hone it into a point before the end
.Basically, was talking with flatmates (all non drug users) and we had spent the evening debating all kinds of issues including; the human right to reproduce, compulsory parenting classes and religion.
One of our number bought up the fact that she was shocked that a freind of hers had smoked pot and then proceeded to state; 'Yeah i was a bit surprised, but its not as if he did E or anything, otherwise i would have just slapped him and said what are you doing you idiot?'. I then proceeded to interject because i felt that in view of the logical and reasoned form previous discussion had taken, this girl was being a bit of a mug about this.
As SOON as the issue was raised; people looking at the floor, not talking, not getting involved, not asking questions, uncomfortable. She cut me off and proceeded to say 'Yeah mike i know you can argue this but not everything i am about is rational so you'll have to accept it'. I then told her that if she was going to say that i would challenge her and if she couldnt explain it i reserved the right to point out the errors in what she was saying.
My point is; we had just debated some really contentious issues, exchanged views and had a rational discussion. AS SOON as drug use is mentioned, people suddenly just wont pipe up and look pensively with the unspoken consensus that 'everyone knows drugs are baaaad'.
I am not starting this thread to debate the individual merits of substances, in fact in this case i was playing devils advocate a bit but heres the question.
Do any of you ever feel frustrated that others will not engage into a sensible, reasoned and rational debate about drug use, when all other topics seem to be ok?
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Comments
All the time mate. It seems everyone has an opinion on stuff like abortion, immigration, health care etc etc and that their opinions are valid as long as they don't go too far but when drugs come into the equation you're either a normal person or scum who doesn't even deserve an opinion. And the lack of education makes it worse, trying to say "relatively speaking, E's are safer than alcohol" to a pisshead student is like trying to teach chinese to a brick wall. Not going to happen, and it does get really really frustrating, though I just tend to say "you don't know what you're talking about, move on please"
extremely frustrating
espically when they're basing what they know on whatever they've read in newspapers etc, they dont have a clue :no:
That's not because there's a lack of people thinking drugs are bad, they just don't seem to be up for a discussion. Whether drugs intrest you or not, it's important to have some understanding of them.
:yes:
I think it is wrong taking drugs.
THAT is my opinion and I do not want you to attack me because of that,
See? You too are basing your opinions against non drug users without knowing anything about them.
But you do have a point concerning non drug users and that it is a very sensitive subject.
How are we?
All we're saying is that nobody want to talk about it. Why do you think drugs are wrong?
Not you skive.
"Just look at how many people we get in here telling us that drugs are bad. Fuck all!"
especially 'fuck all'
It then normally comes down to them saying 'well I dont care what you say, they're dangerous and people shouldnt do them'.
The continual grouping of 'drugs' as one entity does a lot of harm, people see them as similar in terms of risk, especially the Class A drugs.
When I have spoken to people about this I have always found the economic arguements the best. Point out the massive waste of public money the whole 'war on drugs' thing is. Compare us with other countries which have looser laws (holland, Scandinavia, the Swis etc.)
I'm not sure what he is talking about either Skive...
Oh apart from Paul Mcartney, Mick Jagger, George Bush etc any one they do like who takes or has taken them.
Its a bit like the fact that no one likes a poor thief
Chalenge their attitude byasking them why, answers you will get will be
a. its harmfull havnt you heard of Lia Betts
b. Its against the law
Responde
a. how harmfull do you know how many people are using, more people die from drink poisoning and from falling off ladders and from peanut alergies than die taking drugs
b. Oh right the law, yeah youd look down on someone for taking a pill cause its against the law, but youd be best mates with the C.E.O. of a large company who engajed or encouraged with full knowledgein horrendus acts commited around the world, but then thats respectable and the police dont come knocking.
But please do not bring Leah Betts into it. This story, though upsetting, was badly publicised and did not press FACTS. Newspapers and other media forms that chose to report on it missed out vital information, therefore causing concern where concern was not nessicarily needed.
That evening Leah and her friends had been drinking Vodka as well as taking (I think) 1 1/2 pills each.
Now, I don't condone drug use in any way, but mixing up and down drugs is beyond stupid. These girls knew that the drug would dehydrate them, as they had done it a few times before, so why drink as well? Leah died because she panicked, and drank TOO MUCH water.
This is one of the main reasons today that people worry about fluid intake when they are pilling, which can be dangerous and cause people to panic and therefore have a bad 'trip.'
If only what had been documented had been correct facts rather than speculation, opinions would be different today.
Please look into this story and how it was reported, you may find it really interesting. And maybe you won't trust everything Murdock feeds you.
xxxxx
I know this only refers to E, but its a really interesting article.
In fact, its a really good website all together.
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Please note that some of the info is out of date though, as, I believe, Nicholas Saunder (author of E is for Ecstacy etc) ran it but was killed in 98. The people who run it now don't have the time to put in to keep it current.
It was just one in a very long line of mis-representations and out right lies from drugs education which make any efforts nigh on pointless.
And he is clearly not a chemist, there are several errors in the book which I spotted when I read it.
No, off the top of my head his comments on meth were some of the worst, he clearly didnt know what he was talking about.
I dont want to bad mouth the book too much though, it is an interesting read, if totally biased.
But families of alcoholics are rarely paraded infront of the news to prevent us all from drinking.
Alcohol is easily the most socially damaging drug in this country, it is the double standards which make prohibition even more of a joke.
Yes i agree, but like LD said, people are just worried and hurt when they lose someone to drugs and want to warn others that if you are not careful, drugs can kill and that it is more instant that drink.....
I know what you mean, the media does 'big up' drug cases but then who buys the papers........??
Not to mention drugs are illegal, drink isnt........
I wouldn't say so, overdoses on alcohol are not that rare, and given the amount of violence involved in drinking I'd say a quick death from alcohol related causes is entirely possible.
So whats your deal Bongbudda, why do you feel so strongly about this anyhow??