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BPAS cleared over late abortion referrals
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Story (BBC news)
Chief Medical Officer, Sir Liam Donaldson, however, was critical over the fact that BPAS were handing out details 'too readily' and recommended women seeking a late TOP should see a counsellor first. Once that has been done, they are well within the realms of the law to hand out details of clinics abroad if they are beyond the legal limit (23+6 for BPAS, 23+4 Marie Stopes) in the UK.
The Telegraph has yet to make any comment...
Chief Medical Officer, Sir Liam Donaldson, however, was critical over the fact that BPAS were handing out details 'too readily' and recommended women seeking a late TOP should see a counsellor first. Once that has been done, they are well within the realms of the law to hand out details of clinics abroad if they are beyond the legal limit (23+6 for BPAS, 23+4 Marie Stopes) in the UK.
The Telegraph has yet to make any comment...
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Comments
How about the fact that abortions for "social reasons" are illegal beyond 22 weeks in Spain?
Surely, however much we sympathise with women in this position we should be able to promote alternatives such as adoption at birth when women are outside the legal franework for abortion. Why should BPAS be allowed to flout the law in this way? Is it their policy to provide abortion for any reason up until term?
so is it okay for a ROI lady to come to the UK for an abortion despite it being illegal in Ireland?
When we scan the women who come to us for late TOPs, and they are outside the legal limit, they're in far too a hysterical mess to even mention the adoption word. Out of the few cases that have been like this, they often scream at us, then leave the clinic to get a second opinion. I wouldn't be able to tell you the follow up because I don't know.
Isn't that for the Spanish law to decide if they are unlawfully performing abortions outside their own legal limit? I don't see what BPAS themselves would have to do with it in that instance.
What specific law about giving information about clinics abroad have they actually broken? Aside from the gestation, what's so different about Ireland - it's illegal there, are they not allowed to be given numbers for Stopes/BPAS or even have a consultation as many of our Irish clients do?
Informed and competent as long as they carry to term? When women book for later gestations i.e. 19+, as with all terminations, they need to be scanned. The majority of the time, their gestation is less than the presumed gestation indicated by a LMP. Sometimes, this is not the case, and it can be a huge shock to hear you're 15 weeks pregnant with twins (when you're 15 years old) instead of thinking you were 8 weeks or so. Now imagine being told that you're over the legal limit, and will not be able to have a termination *at all* (in the UK at least). They're not exactly going to twiddle their thumbs and say, "Never mind eh? Lets start practising that breathing" You've previously mentioned how cynical you are at stories that I may be inclined to believe, but regardless of whether they're true or not, it's not my place to judge.
We often get women from all parts of Europe, for instance Italy, where their own legal limit is far lower, and they come to us for terminations beyond 12 weeks etc. They obviously didn't think about abortion alternatives, they just found a way. I don't see any newspapers investigating how and where they got their information from to come to the UK.
I don't know, all I know is, if a woman is absolutely determined to terminate a pregnancy, legal or not, she'll find a way. I don't work for BPAS and we don't refer people to that Spanish clinic when they do present over the LLA. But as someone who works for Marie Stopes, I know that we're under constant pressure from the press, who just can't help to try and score points off us at any given opportunity. We often get phonecalls, bogus clients not to mention the odd nutso who tries to cause criminal damage. I know that if Stopes tried to pull stunts which were deemed illegal in the UK alone, they'd be bloody stupid to, because there's always the person just waiting to give the Mail a call.
And there are laws prohibiting termination of pregnancy in any case in Eire at any given gestation, regardless of viability. Would there be a sudden outcry if doctors etc were giving the numbers for BPAS/Stopes? Or is it just the fact that these are late terminations?
Would it make a difference if it did?
Yes, but even when we do operate within the law i.e. respecting the confidentiality of under 16s (which counselling is compulsary) or the signing of the HSA1 forms, the nutjobs still try to make a mountain out of it - the Mail did 3 'sting' attempts recently.
And regardless of the law in Spain (if they're performing illegally, then they'll obviously be investigated etc it's not like the women can't go to Colorado) what BPAS themselves has done, was not illegal, I still fail to see what law under UK abortion laws, was broken.
Is that illegal though? Does the law state that they cannot give advice to people about what options they have available to them whether that is adoption, parenthood or foreign services which the person can access?
If women choose to go abroad and try their luck persuading a Spanish doctor that they need an abortion then that should be their own unilateral decision, with no input from a British abortion services provdier.
I doubt BPAS has broken a specific law, but it's got to be a grey area.
BPAS, like Marie Stopes is a charity (which I have my own gripes with, but that's for another debate). They, like Stopes take on about 50% of NHS funded cases. I presume a lot of their funding comes from their fees.
Why not? What is actually wrong with the advice being given?
voila
as i said before, if an irish lady wants an abortion and her doctor says go over to england and get it done privately, has he done anything wrong (theyre ilegal in ROI)
Designer babies is another issue. A lot of that is to do with the massive demand on the NHS that a change in the law would create.