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Well, there you go...Good to see that not everyone has a problem understanding what 'abuse' is.
Actually I think that you'll find that most people here are capable of understanding what abuse is.
Actually in the context of online chat and such it is far from self-explanatory. There are many different things that different sets of people class as "abuse" or "bullying" and other sets do not.
Personally I think that some folk are a little too quick to moan about people being picked on or being "abused" when they are the target of some light- hearted ribbing - or even a full on well-deserved flaming (and incidentally I have only really witnessed one or two good quality flames here ever, this place is tame compared to a lot of places).
This is the internet, the stuff you read, emotionally charged or not, is just words on the screen, and to be honest if someone is unable to handle a joke or even a personal attack online then it makes me fear for how they will cope in the real world where, frankly, such things are commonplace, can be harsher, and are often used as a method of friendly bonding banter in a completely harmless way.
To be honest you've been here two minutes and your condescending attitutude is already pretty apparent. Whether you do it on purpose or by accident I'm not surprised if you haven't been the target of some flaming before and that you've come here with an axe to grind about it.
No I didn't I asked where you drew the line between disagreement and abuse. The term you were looking for was implies. You were asking about a one way connection. If you genuinely meant equates then that would be quite idiotic. Please could you consult a dictionary or a mathematical text book on the differences between equate, implies and iff relationships as I get frustrated by people not understanding the differences.
Just to point out Jim V said flaming OR abuse. This implies they are two different things. You are saying flaming is abuse. So no not everybody has a problem understanding what abuse is. Sadly though it appears you don't understand it. Never mind.
Unless of course you were sarcastically trying to attack me which would be quite hypocritical considering your anti flaming and anti abuse standpoint would it not?
(I will take this as meaning "look it up in a dictionary")
Which dictionary would you like me to look up abuse in? (Why is it people always say look in a dictionary when some have different explanations of words?) Surely abuse by its very nature is a victim defined thing. I could call someone a hairy arse and if they didn't find it abusive would it be abuse?
I don't want to know what abuse is "associated" with I want to know exactly where you draw the line and say something is abusive as compared to just rude? Abuse is a matter of perception surely so how could a dictionary definition possibly define what abuse is exactly and what I am asking you to do (which is not unreasonable) is to clarify exactly what you are saying is abusive rather than just "something with malice". Where is the line drawn?
Of course abuse and disagreements are not the same thing. That was my point. The question was rhetorical. I thought that was pretty obvious.
I have no issue against disagreements, but your post in that particular instance gave the impression that you believe abuse and constructive criticism amount to the same thing, otherwise, why bring it up at all? I have since explained that it isn't.
I DID mention where I draw the line.
I'm sure the moderators have their own definition of either, but to me, flaming is just another example (of which there are many, as I've already explained) of abuse.
Where's the difficulty in understanding any of this?
Sarcasm is not always abusive. It would depend on intent. I was merely asking your opinion, and some clarification, but for some reason it's got your back up.
You accuse me of being upset about 'flaming', but it would appear that you're the one who's got a bigger problem with this than I do. Why are you taking this so personal?
There you go, being pedantic again. :rolleyes:
All right, I'll concede that since this is all a matter of opinion, and dictionary definitions shouldn't come into play. My apologies. :razz:
Light-hearted ribbing is hardly abuse. No idea why you think I class both in the same category. I have said nothing of the sort thus far.
I was merely starting a debate, like anyone else, so I have no idea where you are getting the idea that I have an axe to grind. Please provide some evidence before you make accusations...Have I made any personal attacks on anyone here?
And condescending? How so?
Just because I have a different opinion than you do?
And as I've already explained (how many times do I need to say this?), just because abuse is a part of life, doesn't mean it's right. This is meant to be a discussion, not a call to arms. If I started a debate about the Iraq War, would you automatically assume I have an 'axe to grind'?
Please point out where I said that you did. What I actually said was that some people are too quick to moan, which they are.
The "evidence" that you ask for is that your first post (and only thread) on this board was this one, which started with you questioning if anyone had the right to abuse anyone else.
Experience makes it look on the face of it that you have been amongst that small group of people who have been on the recieving end of a few flames or an argument that they haven't won, and chosen to mouth off about it in a different place. Of course, I could equally be wrong about that, but that's my guess.
Not that I know of, but what relevance does that have to anything?
Your tone just is. That's how it comes across to me, as if you believe yourself to be superior.
Nope.
This comes down to your perspective on "abuse", what it is, and what is right. There's also an example of your condescending attitude right there, too.
No. But then I didn't automatically do so here, either, it was based on what you might call a hunch. That, and you're far more likely to have had direct experience of a flame than of the Iraq war, to be honest.
Ok, fair enough.
So, you get the impression that I have an 'axe to grind' because my first post wasn't an introduction to myself, or some other topic???
Well, as you have just demonstrated, misunderstandings like that often occur on the net. Believe me, if I've been flamed, I'll sort it out with the person concerned. I don't bring other people into my personal problems. I like to handle things myself...It's just the way I am.
You said I had an 'axe to grind'. That usually implies I'm taking something rather personal, which I am not. It was an open debate, and did not refer to anything specific...otherwise I would have mentioned it.
I apologise if I do as it was never my intention to upset anyone, but again, I don't see how it could have. I've been on the net long enough to know that I don't come across as patronising (which, by the way, isn't always indicative of having an 'axe to grind'). Otherwise, someone would have already 'flamed' me for it, the net being what it is!
You're the first person who's mentioned it thus far!
Besides, I believe there are others who are better masters at being condescending than my humble self!!!
But perhaps I should make more use of smileys? :razz:
How is it an example of my condescending attitude?
(That's open to interpretation too!)
The debate is about both, I guess...what it is, and whether it is right...There are no rules set in stone. And I wasn't just referring to 'flaming'. As it says in the title of this board 'Anything Goes'.
I agree that it is subjective, but I tend to take the same view as the moderators here.
I find most abuse that is done out of malice or spite is usually quite obvious though.
So have most people. It's commonplace, as you have said yourself...It's no biggie...But that wasn't the reason I started this debate. I was merely curious as to how many people think it's ok, and what their views are, which is surely the whole point of debates.
I did actually explain this earlier on in response to somebody else's post.
LOL...well, I suppose if nothing else, it gives everyone something to laugh about! :rolleyes:
Still, if you really didn't give a toss, you wouldn't have responded.
Hehe...well, you've inspired me to start a new thread!!! :hyper:
Because it was this thread specifically.
No, I said that's what it seems like. Slightly, but importantly, different.
It certainly doesn't imply that you would have made personal attacks against folk on this board, which was what you were asking if you'd done, that just came out of nowhere for some reason.
You don't think that that very paragraph has a little bit of a patronising tone to it then?
For all I know, they already have.
Go me.
Doubtless there are, but, then, I didn't say that you were good at it, I just said that you seemed to be doing it.
Perhaps. Or perhaps not. Smileys are double-edged.
When I said that "There's also an example of your condescending attitude right there, too" I was talking about when you said this -
The use of the phrase "how many times do I need to say this" is condescending. It's implying that someone isn't listening to what you are saying, possibly because they don't understand it. That wasn't the case.
There's some more of it right there. And. well, frankly, you may well have explained all of "this" in another post, but hey, I wasn't asking you to explain it at all, and, really, I don't quite get what the "it" is that you're talking about.
If you have a point, please go ahead and make it.
I think we all know that real abuse is bad, people here are trying to widen your discussion and bring out your definitions of abuse, to compare with their own.
You are a spamming rip-off merchant moron. Thank you for proving it with this pathetic indulgence in "woe is me" arrogant claptrap.
Kermit, your posts are brilliant. I´d like to think that, like me, you´re offensive to people partly out of spite, partly because it´s fun and partly because it actually stimulates interesting debate.
As for the original title, I´d like to think that it´s ok to be offensive to people online. For one, people are offensive to others in real life so why not here. That´s not to say that this is real life (no matter how much I wish it were) but why should we act any different online as we do normally. People piss me off in real life as they do online so why should my responses to said people be any different? Secondly, people occasionally demonstrate such complete and utter stupidity, it would be silly not to put them down and thirdly, it makes you feel big and clever.
Right now your being foolish. The question you meant was does having a disagreement imply abuse? It isn't equate. Accept this. You are wrong. Move on with your life.
No my POST didn't. YOU got the impression. That was YOUR interpretation of events.
Your sarcasm offended me. I feel abused. Therefore you were abusive were you not? If I feel abused surely somebody must have abused me and therefore been abusive by your own definition? Is that hard to understand?
Right you have your own definition. Does that make it gospel? Must everybody here accept that flaming is abuse? No to put it bluntly.
Your condescending tone is boring me now. At no point have I taken anything so please do not worry. Also I find it rather childish to end your post with a dig at me rather than something intelligent or constructive to the discussion.
It's not spite. Like I care about any of you enough to be spiteful.
I just find it more amusing.
But you might point out that he should have locked them away…
Since when did flaming become a crime?
Subjective, some people might find a sarcastic comment towards them as abuse.
I’m sure it is more because the vast majority of your posted comments have been on this thread and there are hundreds on the go at the moment which you could contribute to…
That's because I'm new? And since I started this thread, I could at least have the decency to reply to posts. I know there are loads of other threads, but it's not like I can be online 24/7!
Fair enough, though that's not the point I was making.
It is on this forum. Well, it's against the regulations anyway. Anyhow, I was merely saying that flaming is far less acceptible than doing something silly...Then again...How would you define 'silly' or 'stupid'?
I don't know where people are getting this 'woe is me' nonsense...If I WAS angry and upset, you'd think I would be ranting a lot more...Give me evidence of one instance where I have been ranting.
Check Amazon and Royal Mail for the Original prices before you mouth off.
Remember, try to play nice people.
Nope, that's not what I mean...What I was talking about is that IF I have an axe to grind because someone said samething nasty to me, I'd sound really pissed off and be ranting like hell, which I have not been doing.
You'd also see a lot of this: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Not really...how so? It's just an opinion. That's a little like me telling you that what you've just said sounds patronising.
I know, but my point is that there are others who are just as guilty of it...It just so happens none of it was directed at you.
Nope, that was just me being a tad frustrated that I have to keep repeating myself (particularly where the definition of 'abuse is concerned...I think I should just have an automated reply system next time! :chin: )...I haven't had any issue with anything you've said thus far. In fact, I think you've made quite a few valid points, which is what I was hoping for by starting this debate.
From you perhaps...but not from most of what others have been saying so far.
PS - Cool avatar, by the way...My other half's got a t-shirt that says 'milk makes me drunk' with a cow looking slightly mad...Always makes me laugh...Anyhow, going off-topic here... :razz:
Thanks Jim. I'm getting a little annoyed that people seem to be getting abusive and nasty for really no reason. Life is just to short for people to have to deal with this.
Since you seem to insist that 'abuse' is subjective, there's no way anyone could be wrong or right. Besides, this isn't a competition. I couldn't care less even if you did think I was wrong. You're perfectly entitled to, just as I'm perfectly entitled to have my own opinions.
And for someone who doesn't watch his punctuation, you're hardly in any position to be correcting my English.
I find it really cheeky that you should be saying this since all I did was ask you a rather innocent RHETORICAL question, and that is, whether you find abuse equal (from the Oxford dictionary: the same in quality, value, amount, status, meaning, level or standard :rolleyes: ) to disagreement and your response was:
I think I have every right to assume there's a possiblilty that my few words have somehow offended you.
I may have disagreed with most of your comments prior to this, but not once did I ridicule your opinions, or describe them as stupid.
Not by my own definition, no...Please read my previous posts. I did say in #7 that it was subjective, and offered my own interpretation of 'abuse'...
And don't make me repeat myself again. (Yes, that's MEANT to be condescending.)
To quote from a very relevant source:
Deal with it. Everyone does, despite what you might think.
Er...where are you getting the impression that I believe my views are gospel?
A dig at you? What dig? Surely that's you reading too much into things?
Here's a PROPER example of a dig:
You want an intelligent response, first post something that warrants one. Not a plethora of juvenile insults.
If you were THAT bored, you didn't have to reply...or perhaps you just want the last word...Quite frankly, you are welcome to it.
But personally, I think you should just chill...Thus far, you're the only one worked up about this.
Well, I behave online as I would do in real life. I try not to be offensive, or make any personal attacks (in both scenarios). However, I think you're right...well, partially. If someone starts being nasty to you, you have every right to defend yourself.