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maybe if 5 or 6 of them jumped out the meatvan and surrounded your car you might be a little more nervous........and like you said in your previous post, they were pulling everyone over so you know you weren't being targeted as such........wasn't like this in my case, they saw some asians go past and sure enough the sirens are flashing..........why not pull another vehicle over, why us?
i respect your opinion but i can only base my assumptions from previous experience, i have been stopped numerous times with my white friends in the car, when the driver's been over the limit with a bottle of whisky hanging out his pocket, a person in the boot, and the car's wreaking of weed........and still i didn't feel as nervous, because the police officer was decent and polite........
you can't racially distinguish an irish person apart from an english one, so your whole argument is bollocks........that's like saying they can tell muslims apart from sikhs.......wtf?
Come on mate, you can tell Irish people because of the ginger hair, pale skin and green eyes, and their penchant for saying "Wheres me lucky charms?" at all times.
Oh and shamrocks and emerald green clothing, being pissed, fighting with themselves inside phone boxes, potatoes and guiness. :yes:
Firstly I haven't admitted anything. I was simply putting forward my thoughts on how I can't understand what the uproar is about. Secondly, the status quo at the moment is very different from when the IRA was at the height of its bombing campaign, so I think that compression is pretty tenuous at best.
Also, aren't we dealing with simple logistics here? Ethnic minorities are easier to pick out because of just that, they are a minority. That isn't discrimination, that's simple fact. You're throwing up your arms for political correctness and ignoring common sense. The day that a policeman working at a tube station is confronted with a suspicious guy of Asian appearance carrying a large bag and has to think "Oh, no! I’ve randomly searched my quota of Asian looking people today" is a sad fucking day indeed.
I'll turn the tables for you. I'm in a foreign country, the majority of people there are black and there's been a spate of white Christian fundamentalist suicide bombings. I would fully expect to be randomly searched going onto their tube system. It's STATISTICALLY more likely to be than the black guy next to me. Even though I’m not fucking Christian, I’d still understand!
Our accents and different car regestrations are also a bit of a give-away.
i'll turn the tables for you. The statistical chances of a random asian being a suicide bomber is probably LESS than the comparative probability of an asian being more likely to be a bomber than a white man (think about it)........so really stopping random asians without any EVIDENCE doesn't do much at all to protect us, rather the likely outcome is damaging inter-racial relations and trust of the state, which is supposed to look after everyone, black or white..........that's just not how it feels on the streets these days. Your argument is like saying that black people are more likely to commit crime because there are proportionally more black people in jail, therefore the police should randomly stop more black people, which incidentally they do........but it's wrong.
ETA: i assume the country you're referring to is hypothetical, because it just wouldn't happen.......
I'm not arguing that the attitude by the police is acceptable in you instance and i'm not disputing that the atmosphere for you is different on the street.
However, again you comparrisons are tenuous. The reason for black crime being proporitonally higher is directly related to the level of poverty that black people are living in compared with other ethnicities.
I also think you need to rethink your basic maths here.
If you were that police man on the entrance to the tube, who would be the kind of person you'd be paying more attention to?
what are you arguing then, that it's understandable for asians to get pulled over more frequently because a couple of extremists MIGHT have been responsible for the recent bombings? (i am yet to be convinced by the 'evidence' until it is open to public scrutiny, it's quite reminiscent of the saudi hijackers being blamed for 9/11, for which the 'evidence' is still not available to us).........
my comparison is not exact but the best analogy i could think of........forget the social reasons for black crime for a minute (i know them well), do you think it's acceptable for police to proportionally stop and search more black people because there are proportionally more in jail? answer the question.........
I think you need to rethink your ingrained social conditioning on how you're looking at this........
If I paid any attention to the papers and television then yes I would probably be more suspicious of asians, but if I took time to consider the situation independently, i would realise that the chance of an asian being a bomber is 0.000001 percent, and the chance of a white man is maybe 0.00000000001 percent, so really I would try not to discriminate by colour........but of course the police are just like any other citizen, completely brainwashed and on the lookout for shady asians with backpacks.......
I'm arguing that in places like the tube, where random stop and searches are to take place, it would make sense in my mind that if you were to look at a statistic sheet at the end of the day that more people of Asian appearance had been searched than of any other appearance. Why, because my inherant social conditioning has told me this? No, because it has been people of Asian appearance who have carried out the bombings so far to the best of my knowledge. It's simple logistics.
No your comparison is far from exact. You just want to wipe out the crux of the argument so that it suits you better?
Haha, social conditioning! God forbid i was forming these thoughts of my own accord. Don't patronise me.
Well please tell me where you are getting the "real" answers from then? Being a regular member of the public i'm confined to having to sift through what the media feeds me.
you can dress it up however you want, but in effect you're saying racism is alright, because there is a 0.000001 chance that asian over there could be a bomber, and that's conclusive enough proof for you.......
no i want to wipe out the crux of your argument by getting to the bottom of your warped reasoning.........i can only presume from your refusal to answer the simple question that you do think it's okay for black people to get stopped more........? i think it's quite a good analogy, like i said brown is the new black.......
You think social conditioning is some tangible thing you can point to and say, that's not affecting me........it affects everyone to some degree, i'm not patronising you merely trying to show you why you might be getting these funny ideas in your head.......
i can tell you where i'm not getting them from........you can sift through the media all you like you won't find any real answers mate, unless you're a master of doublespeak.
Police at the moment have a top priority, this is to prevent any more terrorist attacks.
Do you dispute that?
Now it is a FACT that all those known to be involved in the bombings were black or Asian. Thus it seems pretty likely that if there were to be anymore bombings these would be carried out by black or asian people also?
Do you dispute that?
Thus if the police are to use stop and search etc as part of their efforts to stop anymore terrorist attacks it makes more sense to stop and search black and asian people.
They have a goal and there is a clear way to best achieve that, so what is the problem?
The police could deliberately make sure the stop and searched an equal number of white people but do you think that is at all sensible in stopping bombings?
Or do you disagree with stopping and searching full stop?
In the end they didn't actually do anything bad to you did they?
You seriously think i'm advocating racism? If it were clowns comitting the crimes do you think it would be unreasonable to stop more clowns than non-clowns?
So you've gone from thinking it's not a great analogy to it being quite a good one? I'm talking about searching people at a tube station, where suicide bombers have been recently targeting; not assessing the racial make up of the prison system and then targeting people based on their ethnicity. Again, i'll make the point that the relative poverty is the reason behind the disproportiante amount of black people in the prison system. Are you trying to liken that situation to terrorists deliberately setting out to kill innocent people?
Well if it's an entity that we have have no control over how can you tell me you're not suffering from it as badly as you make out i am. I put it to you that you've been socially conditioned to think that any focus on an ethnic group, for whatever the reason, is infact racist and should be outlawed.
But you can't tell me where you are getting them from?
Thanks for condensing down my waffle!
No, I do dispute how best this can be achieved......
Fact? You mean the ALLEGED bombers were black or asian, I haven't seen any EVIDENCE with my own eyes so I am left to trust the government and media, two institutions I place no faith in.....
targetting ethnic minorities is a very slippery slope, no matter how sound you think the logic behind it is.......i admit on the surface the argument is very convincing, but if you look at it objectively we have had ONE terrorist attack by supposed islamic extremists, and the same can be said of america, ONE attack in a country that size, and nothing in the 4 YEARS since, shows what a fucking bogus threat this is, can you not see this?.........for all the hype and frenzy, the actual level of threat is so miniscule it doesn't warrant police at every underground station and swarming london's streets, it's fucking ridiculous in my opinion........it's already been said if someone wanted to set off a bomb it's near impossible to stop them, so what we have is a complete over-reaction and the government taking advantage of the situation to try and scare the crap out of everyone, so we surrender all our civil liberties as the americans have done........these are the FACTS.
it's a complete over-reaction to the reality, and maybe if I was white it wouldn't bother me as much, but i'm not and I do resent it because the threat isn't as real or present as it's made out to be.......FACT.
no but by killing that brazilian they set a precedent, which is be very fucking afraid if you're not white.........FACT.
now that is a crap analogy, clowns choose to dress that way, i do not choose to have dark skin........
don't twist my words, i said it wasn't an exact comparison.......how can it be? it is as good an analogy as you can get........and you still won't answer the question......
history..........repeating...........itself..........wake...........up.
I'm with apollo_69 on this .... as well stop every white male between the age of 17 and 40 for being a potential serial killer as stop every black/asian male between the age of 17 and 40 for being a potential terrorist.
I think that is fairly justifiable, I don't think myself that it si the most useful thing in the world but what I am saying is that if the police are going to do it then it makes sense to disproportionately target ethnic minorities, however bad that sounds.
Yes fair enough, but no need to overdo the point I am sure...... :yeees:
Yes I agree that the threat is overhyped but do you think the govt and police could get away with saying the same thing and sitting back and doing nothing? Would you want that?
As has been pointed out before that Brazillian was pretty white. He certainly looks more white than he does Asian.......
I think its fairly ineffective in the short term and disasterous in the long term.
They're unlikely to luck upon any genuine suspects through stop and search and are very likely to alienate the section of society that the Islamic extremists wish to appeal and gain support from.
A very dangerous tactic IMO
Ok ... thats it... i'm going to stop butting in now
Why are you 'butting in'?
Yeah - and then we could have checkpoints around all residential areas to stop young men between the ages of 16 and 35 (or 50 - depending on the commanders mood) moving about ........... and it still won't stop the bombings - in fact its likely to increase them.......... then we could start buidling walls around working class estates - and giving "genuine" workers permits to be out during the day ..........
As much as the state would like to be able to treat us all like criminals/dangerous people needing dangerous measures - none of it will make us safer.
If they turn up the repression they will create more militants - when they accept that there are reasons that this stuff happens, and start addressing the root causes, ie injustice, then things will start improving.
I prefer justice to being repressed.
Call me eccentric if you want.........
Quite right FTP.
What happens is that you lose your civil liberties AND you get bombed. Not much of a solution is it?
Blair can't. Amidst all the shouting about terrorism etc, we have a PM who actively ignored the warnings about war in Iraq given in the dodgy dossier!
The second he acknowledges an Iraq - terrorism link is the second he can be impeached. Which is bizarre, because he was the one who made it in the first place.
Alright then: a spate of blonde people, exceptionally tall people, people in wheel chairs, men with wooden legs, midgets, people with massive noses or anyone else with some distinguishable feature?
I've answered your question already, but I’ll reiterate it again. No, i don't for one second think that it's reasonable to go round randomly stopping and searching black people because proportionally there are a higher percentage of black people in prison than you would expect, given the ratios habitation outside of prison. I do think however, if a high percentage of crimes committed in an area that turned out to be by white perpetrators then I don't think it wouldn't be unreasonable for bobbies on the beat to be more aware of white people roaming about in the area at night for instance. Racist or unreasonable?