France says Non!

BillieTheBot

I take there isn't a thread on this yet because the boards went down...

So, the French went and rejected the EU Constitution. One of the founders of the EU and arguably its most ardent supporter. Very interesting.

BBC analysis

Tony Blair must be very happy...

Former Member

Very interesting.

Its much more than that. It means the end of the EU as we know it.

Former Member

That was going to happen either way. Would you like a cookie for stating the obvious?

Former Member

Choc chip plz.

Former Member

Hmmm, I think its too early to say what the longer term fall out will be, it will probably include a less social model joining of countries. And quite probably less single market too, so who knows.

Former Member

Lets see what the Dutch do before we start to celebrate. The quicker Britain leaves the EU the happier I'll be.

Former Member

It's a delay, not an end.

Which is a great shame. The whole thing should have been drowned at birth.

Also - key points to note are -

Before now, no EU treaty signed by all member governments has been left unratified

Legally, ratified means agreed to after the event, so it's already happened.

France and the EU face a tough political challenge: how to respond to the French public

I love this phrase. How can "france" be different than the "french public"? How mad is that? (Insert usual digression on nations here, join in if you know the words)

But other countries have voters to placate too.

More democracy in action. I mean just look at the languaging from our state run media.

Former Member

klintock wrote:

It's a delay, not an end.
Which is a great shame. The whole thing should have been drowned at birth.

For once I agree with klintock.

Lets not forget Blair has already signed-up to the document - this is Blair democracy, sign-up first, ask the people for their approval afterwards.

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

Lets not forget Blair has already signed-up to the document - this is Blair democracy, sign-up first, ask the people for their approval afterwards.

Has he? Is his signature on the actual document?

Former Member

Lets not forget Blair has already signed-up to the document - this is Blair democracy, sign-up first, ask the people for their approval afterwards.

ASK??!!! When has he ever asked?

I think you mean - confuse, befuddle, lie, brainwash, armtwist, bribe and act unilaterally anyway if all else fails.

Former Member

Rich Kid wrote:

Lets see what the Dutch do before we start to celebrate. The quicker Britain leaves the EU the happier I'll be.

I would have thought the single market would be attractive to a businessman of your standing.

Former Member

The trouble is the EU is being pulled in two directions. The French (and possibly the Dutch if they also say no) rejected it because it was too British. The British will probably reject because its too french.

The EU cannot go in two dire4ctions and by trying to steer a middle course is pleasing nobody.

Shame its taken so long for various politicians to wake up to the fact you cannot take people where they do not want to go...

Former Member

The French public in both camps actually seemed clued up to what the constitution was and had valid reasons for saying yes and no. I fear that would not be the same over here, it would just be "grrrrr Europe, Foreigners, Hate!"

Former Member

I fear that would not be the same over here, it would just be "grrrrr Europe, Foreigners, Hate!"

What utter rubbish. Two of the main reasons the French rejected the treatry were:

1. Fear of Turkey joining.

2. Fear of Eastern European economic migrants.

In Britain the main concern is over loss of national sovereignity.

The French ae far more xenophobic and racist than we are.

Former Member

The Matadore wrote:

What utter rubbish. Two of the main reasons the French rejected the treatry were:

1. Fear of Turkey joining.

2. Fear of Eastern European economic migrants.

In Britain the main concern is over loss of national sovereignity.

The French ae far more xenophobic and racist than we are.

People in the UK don't exactly have balanced sources though, it's all heavily biased to No (i.e. rags like the Mail) or...well....I can't actually think of any publication heavily pushing for a yes vote. There really needs to be a balanced debate about the whole thing.

Former Member

The Matadore wrote:

What utter rubbish. Two of the main reasons the French rejected the treatry were:

1. Fear of Turkey joining.

2. Fear of Eastern European economic migrants.

Quite, for some reason the stereotype of the Polish plumber seems to strike fear into many French hearts, where as Londoners bloody love them.

Former Member

Has anybody here read the constitution?

Former Member

I 'm all for European integration but in many ways, what happenned is good.It 'll force the EU to take a hard look at itself.There's so much that needs fixing.But once it is fixed(I think I 'll start praying), I believe in pressing ahead with the Constitution.We need a strong Europe to counterbalance America's imperialistic antics & trash pop culture(no offence to any Americans here but let's be honest now).

Also, I 'm glad the French have expressed strong disagreement with regards to Turkey's entry.What does Turkey have to do with Europe???

Former Member

TheShyBoyInTheCorner wrote:

Has anybody here read the constitution?

No, I've read the front cover though.

Former Member

Milagro wrote:

Also, I 'm glad the French have expressed strong disagreement with regards to Turkey's entry.What does Turkey have to do with Europe???

About as much as Lithuania.

Former Member

bongbudda wrote:

About as much as Lithuania.

Also Turkish teams play in the Champions league don't they? And are in Eurovision...

Former Member

TheShyBoyInTheCorner wrote:

Has anybody here read the constitution?

Parts of it.It has too many loopholes & contradictions.It needs to be reviewed, no question about it.

Former Member

Renzo wrote:

Also Turkish teams play in the Champions league don't they? And are in Eurovision...

Yes, but Israel and Russia are in the Eurovision so thats not a good example.

Former Member

bongbudda wrote:

About as much as Lithuania.

I 'd say the cultural gap between Europe & Turkey is much greater.

Former Member

Milagro wrote:

I 'd say the cultural gap between Europe & Turkey is much greater.

Why?

Former Member

The whole thing manages to portray what a mess the EU is in.
For fucks sake, no plan B...

That said, I am not so sure that I'd vote yes for the constitution either. I keep changing my mind.

Former Member

The Matadore wrote:

The French are far more xenophobic and racist than we are.

True.But French guys are also more generous(emotionally) & romantic...let's not forget that.

Former Member

bongbudda wrote:

Why?

I 'll elaborate later-need to go offline now.

Former Member

First off, those who claim this is the end for the EU are, I fear, expressing nothing more than wishful thinking. The EU will not be 'finished' because a Constitution draft has not progressed. Things continue as they are- at least for the foreseeable future. And things as they are have been working out fine for several decades and there is no reason why that should change overnight.

One thing I would say about the yes camp (of which I consider myself part of, albeit not nearly as much as I used to) is that if the Constitution is simply 'a tidying up exercise' then it doesn't matter that much if it is not voted through is it? Why the panic?

Finally, I know some of you could say the same about people who voted for the other option, but I do feel that most of the people who voted No in France (and indeed most of the people who would vote No in here) are doing so for completely the wrong reasons- reasons which I shall not go into for the time being...

Former Member

From what I'm aware of the constitution it serves to what we've already got except it clears up discrepencies and acts as a standardised document for all countries. But I haven't read it so you know

Former Member

Its far more than a tidying up exercise.