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Healthcare

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Story

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For a change, lets step away from whinging about waiting lists, and how you had to wait three hours in A&E and even then some complete bastard who'd cut his arm off got in before you. What do you think of this then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the title is (as headlines always are) very senstionalist, but I think alot of truth probably lies in it -

    if I was a qualified african doctor, I would most probably move to a country where I'd get paid a hell of a lot more money, that's for sure. So the lack of doctors in africa probably is in part due to the demand for them here...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    shame, but they dont recruit in certain countries, but people from there are free to apply. What more can you do?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We could tighten the list further, restrict where we get staff from.

    Maybe we could get more from India, they have more graduates than all other countries put together, thye must have some to spare.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We should be tapping into this resource.....
    A survey from the Royal College of Physicians (RCP) reveals that 85% of refugee doctors living in the UK who identified medicine, or one of its subspecialties as an area that they had previously worked in, are not currently employed as physicians within the NHS.

    The majority (54%) of refugee doctors in the UK are not employed in any capacity. Of those that are working some are employed in the health sector in an alternative role. However, many are forced to work in unrelated fields as unskilled labour and are employed as taxi drivers, chefs and security guards.

    Source
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seems a wise option, with the usual checks of course.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    definitely.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A quick question:

    Do you think that a person CAPABLE of providing a service should be told(and/or forced) HOW TO provide that service?


    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    A quick question:

    Do you think that a person CAPABLE of providing a service should be told(and/or forced) HOW TO provide that service?

    Quick answer. Yes.

    So what do you think, or is this another of those occasions when you don't actually offer an opinion Mr Troll?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    What do you think of this then?

    I think it's very emotive and designed to appeal directly to Indy readers.

    Without doctors from overseas we could see exactly the same story anout a UK child, then what do you think the story would be. Especially considering your comments about what we do complain about.

    Put it this way. If more UK residents trained, then we wouldn't need to recruit from overseas. Perhaps the Indy journalist and editor would like to consider retraining?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The are sorting this out by running more medical schools. Qualified applicants who wish to be doctors are not in short supply. This is a long term solution though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quick answer. Yes.

    So what do you think, or is this another of those occasions when you don't actually offer an opinion Mr Troll?

    Quick answer.No.

    "Mr.Troll" is of the opinion that slavery is wrong.

    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is obviously not a good thing to deny poor countries their medical staff.

    I do not beleive generally that govt should tell people where they can live

    Any solution to this issue should be positive rtaher than negative, i.e. encourage more training abroard and domestically, or target aid at health sectors etc, not controls on immigration as this could easily be an excuse for Tory like views in the current climate.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Quick answer.No.

    "Mr.Troll" is of the opinion that slavery is wrong.

    seeker

    Mr Troll need to look at that definition again. Particularly the "bound in servitude" part because that does not apply.

    However, perhaps you would like to explain why the person purchasing a service should not dictate how that service is to be delivered?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually I have no problems with health care providers (or any other professional) being told how to deliver their service.

    Given that I'm no expert on health and have to rely on the Doctor's advice I'm rather glad that there are other professionals regulating that service to ensure that he conforms to accpeted practice and doesn't decide that the best cure for a broken finger is to amputate my arm.

    Or would seeker prefer a wholly unregulated system where we take pot luck on how we are treated?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Plus for an organisation as big as the NHS to work there has to be some organisation, you cant just have doctors seeking people who are sick by themselves, it makes no sense.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the headline has wider implications.

    It's not just that we rely on foreign trained doctors and nurses - African countries remain poor and healthcare there is extremely limited for most of the population. Meanwhile, we spend money on utterly pointless research. A bit of perspective would be nice sometimes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Quick answer.No.

    "Mr.Troll" is of the opinion that slavery is wrong.

    seeker

    Hang on, aren't you an arch freemarket capitalist?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mr Troll need to look at that definition again. Particularly the "bound in servitude" part because that does not apply.

    Doesn`t apply to what exactly? The definition certainly applies to MY question.
    However, perhaps you would like to explain why the person purchasing a service should not dictate how that service is to be delivered?


    I agree with you.A person purchasing (a voluntarily offered) service should be able to dictate how the service is delivered.How does that apply to MY question ?


    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Actually I have no problems with health care providers (or any other professional) being told how to deliver their service.

    Even if it amounts to slavery ?
    NQA wrote:
    Given that I'm no expert on health and have to rely on the Doctor's advice I'm rather glad that there are other professionals regulating that service to ensure that he conforms to accpeted practice and doesn't decide that the best cure for a broken finger is to amputate my arm.

    Who decides what is accepted practice? How can YOU be sure that "Mr. Professional Regulator" is more knowledgeable about YOUR health than "Mr.Doctor" ?
    NQA wrote:
    Or would seeker prefer a wholly unregulated system where we take pot luck on how we are treated?

    Are all, or should I say any,of the decisions that you take based on "pot luck" ?

    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Plus for an organisation as big as the NHS to work there has to be some organisation, you cant just have doctors seeking people who are sick by themselves, it makes no sense.

    God forbid that mutual consent be a part of the equation,eh ?


    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Hang on, aren't you an arch freemarket capitalist?

    Evidently my nametag says "Mr.Troll" the "arch freemarket capitalist" :D

    Purely for (my) educational purposes.....

    Question for Man Of Kent:

    What is a "Mr.Troll" ?

    Question for Blagsta:

    What is an "arch freemarket capitalist" ?

    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Doesn`t apply to what exactly? The definition certainly applies to MY question.

    It would if that person couldn't withdraw their services. Which was my point.
    I agree with you.A person purchasing (a voluntarily offered) service should be able to dictate how the service is delivered.How does that apply to MY question ?

    Instead of being criptic and trying to be clever why don't you just come out with whatever it is you are thinking. Saves us a lot of bother you know.

    Not doing so explains my description of you as a troll.

    If you want to know what it means, in internet terms, then I suggest you look it up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Who decides what is accepted practice? How can YOU be sure that "Mr. Professional Regulator" is more knowledgeable about YOUR health than "Mr.Doctor" ?

    Mr Regulator isn't there to do that. He isn't there to look at your health per se.

    BTW as an example, not killing someone is accepted practice. You don't need to be Einstein to work that out.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Instead of being criptic and trying to be clever why don't you just come out with whatever it is you are thinking. Saves us a lot of bother you know.

    Not doing so explains my description of you as a troll.

    If you want to know what it means, in internet terms, then I suggest you look it up.

    Do you think I was being cryptic ? Strange,I thought I had asked an explicit question.I even emphasised certain words in an attempt to avoid being misunderstood.

    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mr Regulator isn't there to do that. He isn't there to look at your health per se.

    What,EXACTLY,is "Mr.Regulator" there to do ?
    ManOfKent wrote:
    BTW as an example, not killing someone is accepted practice. You don't need to be Einstein to work that out.

    But you do need a "Mr. Regulator" to tell you ?

    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can we be ignoring seeker and actually discussing the wider implications of the drain on africa's healthcare, not simply because we want more doctors, but also because they want to leave?

    Is there anything that we can do to plug the gap?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Global wealth redistribution possibly.

    But unless we stop the right to freedom of international travel, then there will always be people who travel abroad for more money.

    You only to look at the ex pat engineering communities of the middle east to see how far people will go for a better paid job.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    Is there anything that we can do to plug the gap?

    Did you ignore my post?

    Qualified applicants who wish to be doctors are not in short supply, places on courses are, which is why they are tryign to open more medical schools. This is a long term solution, however.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Global wealth redistribution possibly.

    :eek2:
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