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Disabled mans killer gets life

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Now normally id say he deserves all he gets but this case is different.

Clicky

This man begged doctors to admit him to hospital just days before the attack because of his mental state of mind and was not listened to or at least not taken seriously and now he is paying the price for some doctors cock up.
The judge, Mr Justice Holland, told Jones: "You came into that house as a lodger, you drank all his alcohol, you picked a quarrel with him and you attacked him repeatedly, brutally and mercilessly."

No mention of his state of mind eh.

do you think the doctors involved in this case should now be investigated ?
Personally I think they should because they obviously were negligent.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If there is a case to answer about diminshed responsibility, normally it is answered. It is preferable to try people as mentally ill- they don't need to be tried by jury, or convicted, or given release rights- if they are actually mentally ill.

    Given the amount of psychological reports that are given to a judge to aid his direction in these cases, I would suspect that the judge has been correct to convict for murder. It's always impossible to make a good judgment without all the facts, and in criminal cases all the facts are not available to the general public.

    In fact, the general public rarely have an inkling of even a majority of the facts, because certain facts are kept out of newspapers by judicial process, and some facts are kept out by media editorial policy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    do you think the doctors involved in this case should now be investigated ?
    Personally I think they should because they obviously were negligent.
    What should they have done? They can't lock people up for feeling angry or for things that they may or may not do in the future. Unless he had made a specific threat, he is not sectionable under the Mental Health Act. If he has no treatable psychiataric illness, he is not sectionable under the Mental Health Act.

    And if he was convicted of murder, this implies that he is not of diminished responsibility that may have been the case if he were mentally ill at the time of the killing.

    Tell me what "obviously negligent" means?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Tell me what "obviously negligent" means?

    Days earlier he had begged them to put him into psychiatric hospital, they didnt.
    If they had taken him into hospital like he requested then this man would still be alive today. Doctors make decicions and on this occasion they made the wrong decision and a man has lost his life because through it.

    My view is that the doctors involved have not done their job properly. Here we have a fella who holds his hands up and says he has a mental illness but they let him out............someone should be held responsible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm the queen of Sheba.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tken from my local paper today Clicky
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quite clearly I'm not, but people say a lot of things that aren't true.

    Going into hospital and claiming to be mentally ill a week before killing someone does not mean that hospital treatment would have helped.

    I think you underestimate just how difficult it is to assess how dangerous people are.

    If you had your way we'd be locking up an awful lot of people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:

    If you had your way we'd be locking up an awful lot of people.

    No dont even go there. Where have I said in this thread anyone should be locked up, im stating exactly the opposite, this fella asked for psychiatric help and was not given it.

    Now you lot here keep telling me that prisoners get assessed for early release, well here is proof that doctors do not always get it right. This fella should have been in a psychiatric hospital like he requested then this tradgedy would never of happened.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What for? He had an untreatable condition. Psychitaric hospitals are not designed to be holding pens for mentally ill people before they commit crimes and get sent to prison.

    What should the doctors have done for him?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    What should the doctors have done for him?


    What will the doctors do when he is due for release and he lets them think he is ok then when he gets out kill someone else because he is still mentally unstable ?

    He should have been kept in a secure mental hospital, or something similar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    He had an untreatable condition.


    so put him out on the streets to kill someone...which is exactly what happened.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He's using the doctors as a scapegoat.

    He killed the man, not them.

    Like Kermit said, the judge would have been presented with evidence of this man's mental state and used them in his judgement.

    How do we know he really did ask to be admitted to hospital?

    Even if he had been in a secure unit, how do we know he wouldn't have attacked and killed someone there... a nurse or visitor perhaps? He obviously had the capabilities.
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    so put him out on the streets to kill someone...which is exactly what happened.

    He wasn't put out on the streets. He was already there and had never been taken off them. He was not sectionable under the Mental Health Act.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Psychiatric secure hospitals such as Broadmoor are basically prisons for those who commit crimes because they are criminally insane.

    Psychiatric hospitals such as St Luke's are there to treat and assess those in whom mental illness is suspected/diagnosed.

    This guy just sounds like a psychopath, not someone with a mental illness.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jones, who has an anti-social personality disorder, was identified as a serious risk to the public by police, social services and probation workers in April 2003.Only months later, he tried to attack his friend Darren Cooper with a samurai sword.

    Taken from todays Northern Echo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    Taken from todays Northern Echo.
    That's like saying someone falling from a great height is in "serious danger" of dying.

    Clearly, but that doesn't mean a doctor can prevent it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BumbleBee wrote:
    .

    How do we know he really did ask to be admitted to hospital?

    Even if he had been in a secure unit, how do we know he wouldn't have attacked and killed someone there... a nurse or visitor perhaps? He obviously had the capabilities.


    We dont know, Im basing my thoughts on what I have read, I can only assume its correct.
    If he was in a secure unit then he would be in a unit on his own wouldnt he? I dunno, I honestly dont know that side of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The simple fact remains that courts will generally accept a mental illness defence if there is one there, because it is easier for them to detain a mentally ill person than it is to detain someone convicted of murder.

    The fact that a mental illness defence has not been accepted makes me suspect that the person in question was not mentally ill at the time of the assault.
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