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Debating debate

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I am wondering what there needs to be in order for a good and full debate to take place. It seems to me that there must be certain criteria that must be met in order for meaningful discussion to occur.

Sources provided, seperate from opinion and that sort of thing.

So, what do you think there needs to happen for a proper debate to happen?

Some of the things seem obvious to me, like a willingness to change your mind if shown to be wrong, or not hitting for emotional reactions just because you are losing.

Any thoughts?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quite agree, and less of the personal abuse.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No trolling.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    people answering all the questions they are asked
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's pretty much impossible to guarantee a decent debate online because we can't always respond to good opposing arg's, and we don't all want to play the same game - I particularly don't like the ping-pong crap that Rich Kid plays against 4 or 5 idiots at a time (and wins!).

    I'm sure you have the fundamentals for in-person but online it's impossible to fix.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I particularly don't like the ping-pong crap that Rich Kid plays against 4 or 5 idiots at a time (and wins!).

    how does shutting up and leaving a thread constitute winning...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    people answering all the questions they are asked

    Not sure that's quite so important, because it ends in a sort of factual ping-pong, with two people batting the same point to and fro, arguing over smaller and smaller differences of detail until one of them gets fed up, at which point the other claims 'victory.' I think it's often better to reply to someone's post as a whole - although answering direct questions - rather than taking it apart line by line.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a lack of humility in most posters is the main problem.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ibex wrote:
    Not sure that's quite so important, because it ends in a sort of factual ping-pong, with two people batting the same point to and fro, arguing over smaller and smaller differences of detail until one of them gets fed up, at which point the other claims 'victory.' I think it's often better to reply to someone's post as a whole - although answering direct questions - rather than taking it apart line by line.
    It is when someone is, for instance, gay bashing and suggesting homosexuality is an abomination and wrong because it is unnatural on the basis that the anus was not designed for taking penises in, and then gets caught out when asked if the same applies to the female mouth, and refuses to answer if that is also an unnatural abomination.

    Take a guess who could that have been...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Posters should provide evidence of their claims.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ibex wrote:
    Not sure that's quite so important, because it ends in a sort of factual ping-pong, with two people batting the same point to and fro, arguing over smaller and smaller differences of detail until one of them gets fed up, at which point the other claims 'victory.' I think it's often better to reply to someone's post as a whole - although answering direct questions - rather than taking it apart line by line.

    Yea I haven't got the time or the temperament for point by point volleyball. I tend to say what I want and look in the next day to see if anyone's given me reason to change my mind. We aren't being rude or running away if we don't answer every response, we just have other stuff to do...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yea I haven't got the time or the temperament for point by point volleyball. I tend to say what I want and look in the next day to see if anyone's given me reason to change my mind. We aren't being rude or running away if we don't answer every response, we just have other stuff to do...

    Read my post above. Don't you think that under such circumstances the poster in question must answer a simple question?

    And bear in mind it has been asked to them not fewer than 40 times, over a period of several weeks. No "didn't have time to reply" excuses there.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    It is when someone is, for instance, gay bashing and suggesting homosexuality is an abomination and wrong because it is unnatural on the basis that the anus was not designed for taking penises in, and then gets caught out when asked if the same applies to the female mouth, and refuses to answer if that is also an unnatural abomination.

    Take a guess who could that have been...

    I was part of that thread! IIRC, there was a suggestion that women don't have anal sex...

    Perhaps I should have drawn a distinction between replying to specific points, and picking out specific sentences to comment on. It's a difference of degree, but a difference nonetheless IMO. In a lot of cases, however, if two people are putting forward opposing views on a particular subject then it's often IMO better to address the post as a whole and the assumptions underlying it than to pick it apart, although that's not to say direct questions or particular points shouldn't be picked up on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Less hostility towards 'newbies'. You may have opposing viewpoints but that doesn't mean you have to scare the living daylights out of them. Keep it friendly.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The debate would improve when you all realise that I'm right and you're wrong (except when you agree with me of course) :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rachael wrote:
    Less hostility towards 'newbies'. You may have opposing viewpoints but that doesn't mean you have to scare the living daylights out of them. Keep it friendly.

    There are people who have differing views and then there are people who are nasty pieces of work. They hide behind the thin guise of an "opposing" viewpoint.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Read my post above. Don't you think that under such circumstances the poster in question must answer a simple question?

    And bear in mind it has been asked to them not fewer than 40 times, over a period of several weeks. No "didn't have time to reply" excuses there.

    I asked him once myself why he thought homosexual sex or buggery was unnatural, but he didn't answer because he knows he can't answer - it's only his belief. I only asked him the question once, anybody who kept repeating the question is silly to waste their own time.

    On the thread I was involved in a moderator joined in and when faced with RK's repeated claims that queer sex was unnatural, perverted, and that homosexuals needed redeeming, she objected only to the queer tag...the rest apparently wasn't defamatory. :rolleyes: If moderators can't figure out the rules for our debates what chance us?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are people who have differing views and then there are people who are nasty pieces of work. They hide behind the thin guise of an "opposing" viewpoint.

    Was that in reference to me??
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not just a question of defamation... it's a question of being a hypocrite. I don't think there is a rule against that on these boards but when someone keeps bashing about homosexual acts being an "unnatural abomination" because anuses weren't made for cocks it is perfectly legitimate and justified if such reasoning extends to oral sex between a man and a woman, or if those "views" only apply to gay men having anal sex.

    To date the poster in question has refused to answer such simple question. By now an answer is academic though, because everyone knows what the poster would answer (and what would that make the poster). That is why they have refused to answer in the first place. Caught out, and in a rather careless manner.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rachael wrote:
    Was that in reference to me??

    No, not at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Okay, I only said that because people seemed rather pissy with me in the Smacking thread.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rachael wrote:
    Okay, I only said that because people seemed rather pissy with me in the Smacking thread.

    it's not that...you just never accepted that smacking was another form of discipline and an acceptable one at that...some people would find that condescending and patronising thats all :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I'm sorry if I made it look like you were all child beaters cos I know that isnt the case =] I just feel very strongly that smacking is wrong. Didnt mean to cause offence.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rk -
    Quite agree, and less of the personal abuse.

    Agreed. No more pet nicknames/queer comments would be a good thing.
    It's pretty much impossible to guarantee a decent debate online because we can't always respond to good opposing arg's, and we don't all want to play the same game - I particularly don't like the ping-pong crap that Rich Kid plays against 4 or 5 idiots at a time (and wins!).

    Fair comment. Thread derailing (which i am also pretty guilty of) can be a pain in the ass.
    a lack of humility in most posters is the main problem

    Guilty as charged. :blush:
    Posters should provide evidence of their claims.

    Seems totally fair, from reputable sources, or acknowledging bias when they do use stuff like the Daily Mail or Indymedia or whatever.
    Less hostility towards 'newbies'. You may have opposing viewpoints but that doesn't mean you have to scare the living daylights out of them. Keep it friendly.

    Pretty tricky once we get warmed up but I can see why we got called scary.
    If moderators can't figure out the rules for our debates what chance us?

    Moderators aren't the primary users of the board, I think there's no harm in asking these questions, myself. Conventions aren't rules but are usually needed.

    I would just like to add that in order for a debate to have any meaning then both sides must want to actually explore the issue athand, rather than just using it as an excuse to become a kind of right/left wing jukebox.

    Thanks for the replies, guys. :wave:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rachael wrote:
    Okay, I only said that because people seemed rather pissy with me in the Smacking thread.


    You brought that on yourself tbh, I seem to remember that it was you who came in with an attitude problem :chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BeckyBoo wrote:
    You brought that on yourself tbh, I seem to remember that it was you who came in with an attitude problem :chin:

    Gah. I do not have an attitude problem. :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yea I haven't got the time or the temperament for point by point volleyball. I tend to say what I want and look in the next day to see if anyone's given me reason to change my mind. We aren't being rude or running away if we don't answer every response, we just have other stuff to do...
    thing is, thats not debating then is it?
    Thats just putting an opinion over.
    Debating IS the ping ponging of ideas. I quite enjoy it if im interested in the subject. Putting over opinions is OK if thats what is asked for, but in the debating forum, youre kind of expected to debate, and its not unreasonable for people to want you to keep going once youve started or to substantiate your claims.

    Whos `we` by the way? Are you more than one person?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rachael wrote:
    Okay, I only said that because people seemed rather pissy with me in the Smacking thread.

    See that was one of the best debates of late. People actually exchanging views on the situation rather than having the debates brought contantly back to the same bull shit that they have been of late.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    See that was one of the best debates of late. People actually exchanging views on the situation rather than having the debates brought contantly back to the same bull shit that they have been of late.
    I enjoyed that debate too actually.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think the best debates happen when people keep an open mind........it's fine to have a firm belief in something, but to think you are infallible pisses me off (damn atheists ;) ), when someone dismisses everything out of hand because they know they are RIGHT, even if maybe they are, truth is rarely objective........comes back to what rollie said about humility really..........fact is we're all guilty of this to some degree.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    people answering all the questions they are asked


    how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood????
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