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Ecstasy deaths falling

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
News today, drug deaths in young men have doubled in the last few years.<P class="body">These were mostly from heroin and coke abuse.<P class="body">Deaths from ecstasy have fallen instead. Is that because we're all being more careful, or because pure E is so hard to get hold of now??

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think people are bing more careful now -- education has increased (obviously not through schools or official sources but from drug users helping each other. <P class="body">As for not being able to get pure ecstasy..... how the hell are you supposed to know whats in a pill anyway? without a govt-backed testing system, there are always going to be people getting sick from bad drugs filled with dangerous shit.<P class="body">peta
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you can get interesting stuff about the dodgy stuff being out in ecstasy pills at http://ramindy.sghms.ac.uk/~ltg/index.html <P class="body">which is the london toxology group.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Mickey:
    News today, drug deaths in young men have doubled in the last few years.<P class="body">These were mostly from heroin and coke abuse.<P class="body">Deaths from ecstasy have fallen instead. Is that because we're all being more careful, or because pure E is so hard to get hold of now??
    <P class="body">Doesn't that indicate what we already know and fear? That drug users no longer find pleasure in ecstasy, probably due in part to the rather unpredictable contents within but also due to the rather undiginified "Village Idiot" effect it often has on its users, who do not enjoy their well constructed self-image being being discarded. Users have moved on to Coke where one can feel good, hold a conversation, be sophisticated, yet remain in better "control". Even if things do get a bit pear-shaped and paranoia & self-doubt set in, its only for half an hour or so.<P class="body">No matter what is being taken and the damage that is done by the drug itself, for me, a lot of the psychological damage is done by the actual desire to take a drug, any drug. This is to my mind, ultimately the most selfish act that one can do as it is purely for personal pleasure and nobody elses. Irnonically of course it only serves to make users unhappier and so they continue round and round on the cycle until something breaks.<P class="body">What are your thoughts on this? Agree, disagree, i'd be interested to know your point of view.


    Peace & Happiness<P class="body">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DuvetHog:
    drug users no longer find pleasure in ecstasy, probably due to the rather undiginified "Village Idiot" effect it often has on its users,
    <P class="body">this is rubbish. drug use goes through cycles and people come and go through different scenes. now that ecstasy has been around for about fifteen years, we're beginning to see it for what it is - a recreational drug which most people use for a period of time before moving on. And I don't mean moving on to other illegal drugs -- more likely they "grow up", get bored with club life and nurture their relationship with alcohol instead. people don't care what they look like on pills -- that's one of the whole points of it.<P class="body">
    No matter what is being taken and the damage that is done by the drug itself, for me, a lot of the psychological damage is done by the actual desire to take a drug, any drug. This is to my mind, ultimately the most selfish act that one can do as it is purely for personal pleasure and nobody elses. Irnonically of course it only serves to make users unhappier and so they continue round and round on the cycle until something breaks.
    <P class="body">You are absolutely right. Right, that is if you are talking about the small percentage of drug users who have a problem. <P class="body">most of the drug use in the uk is done on a recreational basis and contrary to being selfish, it's more to do with belonging to a scene and simply having a laugh with your mates. sure it's manufactured, sure it isn't great for your body, but for most people the damage is negligable, especially in comparison to other drugs and lifestyle choices. <P class="body">This whole idea you suggest, of every drug user being in this downward spiral of doom and unhappiness is just not the case for most people. Sorry. <P class="body">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by brandonwalsh:
    You are absolutely right. Right, that is if you are talking about the small percentage of drug users who have a problem. <P class="body">most of the drug use in the uk is done on a recreational basis and contrary to being selfish, it's more to do with belonging to a scene and simply having a laugh with your mates. sure it's manufactured, sure it isn't great for your body, but for most people the damage is negligable, especially in comparison to other drugs and lifestyle choices. <P class="body">This whole idea you suggest, of every drug user being in this downward spiral of doom and unhappiness is just not the case for most people. Sorry.
    <P class="body">Admittedly, for me it is the "small minority with the problem" that I care deeply about while the others are "having a laugh with their mates" but I guess that's my problem.<P class="body">Users take drugs for their own personal benefit, nobody elses (especially not at these prices) and this can only have a detremental effect on the mind and lead to unhappiness and suffering. Few take drugs for very long, the majority of people stop taking them for reasons quite apart from expense, changes in personal taste or on a whim. <P class="body">I guess in a forum such as this there is no right or wrong answer, only peoples opinions. Its interesting to see we both see the same issue (though mine appears to be "Rubbish") from completely different angles and hopefully as a result,anybody reading and thinking about dabbling can make a slightly more informed decision.<P class="body"><P class="body"><P class="body"><P class="body"><P class="body">

    Peace & Happiness<P class="body">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DuvetHog:
    Its interesting to see we both see the same issue (though mine appears to be "Rubbish") from completely different angles and hopefully as a result,anybody reading and thinking about dabbling can make a slightly more informed decision.
    <P class="body">Well your opinion which i called rubbish was that drug users no longer find pleasure in ecstasy. tell that to any one of the hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who do it over any average weekend.... as i said in an earlier posting, it may be a purely manufacured and short-term pleasure, and it may have longterm consequences we don't know about, but it is still a pleasure.<P class="body">You also suggest that "drug use can only have a detremental effect on the mind and lead to unhappiness and suffering".<P class="body">For crying out loud, it's not always lie this!!!! this reminds me of tv soaps -- whenever they have a character who does drugs, it always ends up turning into a disaster. no one takes the odd pill, has teh odd spliff and gets on with their lives. which is what most people do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DuvetHog:
    Admittedly, for me it is the "small minority with the problem" that I care deeply about while the others are "having a laugh with their mates" but I guess that's my problem.<P class="body">Users take drugs for their own personal benefit, nobody elses (especially not at these prices) and this can only have a detremental effect on the mind and lead to unhappiness and suffering.
    <P class="body">This strikes me as a very poor argument. People eat food for their own personal benefit, they breathe oxygen for their own personal benefit. Strangely these actions do not see to lead to moral decrepitude (well not yet anyway!)<P class="body">

    Few take drugs for very long, the majority of people stop taking them for reasons quite apart from expense, changes in personal taste or on a whim. <P class="body">I guess in a forum such as this there is no right or wrong answer, only peoples opinions. Its interesting to see we both see the same issue (though mine appears to be "Rubbish") from completely different angles and hopefully as a result,anybody reading and thinking about dabbling can make a slightly more informed decision.
    <P class="body">I think any well thought-out argument against drugs needs to be made with more cogent reasons than "they are selfish" (which most things are in life) or "they make you look stupid" (something which is often not the case anyway).<P class="body">

    Users have moved on to Coke where one can feel good, hold a conversation, be sophisticated, yet remain in better "control".
    <P class="body">Cocaine users have a far greater chance of developing an addiction than ecstacy users. On top of this it is a far easier drug to overdose on. <P class="body">Then of course there's the proven (as opposed to MDMA's currently theoretical) brain damage, cardiovascular damage, not to mention the hideous damage to your nasal membranes and respiratory system.<P class="body">I'm not saying that MDMA is harmless either but to put forward the opinion that to take cocaine is an informed choice seems to go against the other implied point you are making about putting people off drugs in the first place.<P class="body">It's nice for you to say there is no right or wrong answer as that is very true. IMHO every individual should be able to make this choice for themselves and should be well informed before they do so.<P class="body">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by melkshum:
    This strikes me as a very poor argument. People eat food for their own personal benefit, they breathe oxygen for their own personal benefit. Strangely these actions do not see to lead to moral decrepitude (well not yet anyway!)<P class="body">
    <P class="body">
    I would have thought that the difference between taking a drug and eating, drinking or sleeping would be quite obvious. There is a certain amount of neccesity in some actions while others are for soley for personal pleasure. The fact that additionally a drug may well cause biological/physical/psychological damage or worse obviously compounds the problem.<P class="body">Perhaps only a minority are deeply effected like Brendon suggests, but that was the original ghist of the thread, ie. Ecstasy Deaths (which are currently a small percentage)falling. For me that minority is still human life and worth saving. <P class="body">Or maybe i'm simply over-reacting?<P class="body"><P class="body">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by melkshum:
    I think any well thought-out argument against drugs needs to be made with more cogent reasons than "they are selfish" (which most things are in life) or "they make you look stupid" (something which is often not the case anyway).
    <P class="body">Melkshum,<P class="body"> I meant that in my opinion people invariably, FINALLY stop taking drugs because of the undesirable effects it is having on them and their lives and those around them. <P class="body">What does everybody else think? What happenned to the ravers of the early 90's? If they stopped, like those before them in the 60's, why? <P class="body">Expense? Availablitiy? Quality? Risk of arrest? <P class="body">Why? Ask yourselves why? Ask them why, even better.

    [This message has been edited by DuvetHog (edited 15-03-2000).]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by brandonwalsh:
    Well your opinion which i called rubbish was that drug users no longer find pleasure in ecstasy. tell that to any one of the hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who do it over any average weekend.... as i said in an earlier posting, it may be a purely manufacured and short-term pleasure, and it may have longterm consequences we don't know about, but it is still a pleasure.<P class="body">You also suggest that "drug use can only have a detremental effect on the mind and lead to unhappiness and suffering".<P class="body">For crying out loud, it's not always lie this!!!! this reminds me of tv soaps -- whenever they have a character who does drugs, it always ends up turning into a disaster. no one takes the odd pill, has teh odd spliff and gets on with their lives. which is what most people do.
    <P class="body">Yes, hundreds of thousands of people go out every weekend, pop a pill for their own pleasure....<P class="body">Like a dowdy TV soap maybe, like i've stated elsewhere, it is those that suffer at the hands of drugs that I am worried about. This isn't just the percentage of fatalities that occur but also those whose jobs are lost, marriages wrecked, health is effected etc. The actual figure for which is unknown unless anyone can help us out here with figures?.<P class="body">
    I'm certainly not in the business of telling people how to live their lives, god knows i've made enough mistake of my own, just to think hard about issues such as this and take the decision very seriously. <P class="body">Someone wise once said...<P class="body">All suffering there is in this life comes from wishing happiness on yourself.<P class="body">All happiness that comes in this life comes from wishing happiness on others.<P class="body">As you can probably tell, i'm down with this little old feller.<P class="body">
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