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the matter we know of may well be accelerating outwards but into what?
there has to be space and time for it to expand into.
that space can't just end ...can't have edges or walls ...all walls have two sides.
only because of our limited knowledge
care to elaborate on that
The theory (that I like) is that the universe is accelerating outwars into infinity, and will then slow down and crush back in on itself. Then the large amount of compressed mass into one space will generate a force so great that is flies back out again, and so on.
Another theroy I quite like is that when you reach the "edge" of this universe you cross into another dimention where things are different. It is rumoured that the "aliens" if htey exist may be from another such dimension.
The universe loops back on itself.
Einstein asked the question -
If i rode forever on a beam of light, where would I end up?
He came to the conclusion that he would end up (eventually) where he started.
So obviously the universe is only one pace. And that place is VERY LARGE.
what is the universe inside of?
it is expanding into what where?
your doughnut has to be somewhere ...in something ...
size has nowt to do with it ...size is relative.
i'm seeing the universe as a huge grid network now...multi-dimensional of course...i wonder if i can rip it apart and see what's inside?
Don't do that, they're be an intergalactic traffic jam for months! Please, consider the people in it!
ok...let me see now, theres animals, there's humans, there's george bush, i think we can afford to waste one of them...let me see now :chin:
just what i said, our intelectual level is too primitive to even comprehend what it would look like.
it had to start from somewhere also, actually from nothing, but how can something start from nothing? ( i know someones going to bring up the whole god= creation thing, but then what created him? you cant say he has just always been here.)
It all comes back to the fact that we are just too young as a species to have any hope of figuring this question out, but its fun trying
i've mentioned it on another recent thread that because of our honeymoon with conventional time systems, we'll never be able to comprehend what eternal time means, i also said "god never was, god never will be, god just is" and that works with time aswell, there is no past or future just present, our dreams and memories help reason the former and latter but don't excuse it
yes it is hard trying to grasp the whole idea...i'll be smart enough some day...don't worry...
but fun to think about it..... can get a migraine just thinking about it
our material based science can only act upon matter.
there is more space than matter.
even in your desk or coffee table.
it looks solid to our puny vision but we know it isn't.
it looks still but we know it is vibrating like hell.
so the whole thing is no more than an illusion.
if all those little bits seperately and at a distance from each other ...all spinning around furiously can create our false percetion of reality ...imagine how much more real the one continuous space that touches itself at all points all the time realy is.
the space is the reality not the matter.
the matter is within the space and not the other way round.
the only way we will ever get real answers is when ...our science becomes spiritualy based as opposed to materialy based.
the truth will not come from an illusion.
Go on, imagine nothing now. No, your imagining a black background to nothing. No, thats a white one. Nothing at all, no background. Like if air went on forever and nothing got in its way.
See? Your head hurts now. Heres an old hopi tale that fits here: (Ok, frogs don't live in the sea, but bear with me ok?)
A frog lives in a well for his whole life, and he like it, he thinks he has lots of room and everything he needs. One day, a frog from the sea visits him. He says to the frog in the well:
"Hey, I live in the sea, its huge, you should come and see it!"
"Is it as big as... A quarter of my well?"
"No, bigger!"
"Half of it?"
"No, its much bigger than your well! Come with me!"
So, he does, thinknig he must see this so called "Sea" for himself. And when he does, he looks at the vastness of it all, an his head just explodes.
Odd but its got a point, no?
It doesn't, it's stationary. Something that moves at the same rate in all directions at all times can't be moving at all. It's what everything else moves in.
Or possibly, through. Or maybe between.
Even today all our sciences remain firmly newtonian at heart. Chemistry, as a quick example, should have been re-written from the ground up with each chemical given frequencies to describe it's "states" but we have a workable model so no one has bothered.
The difference between your coffee table isn't the "matter" it contains, but the frequency that it has relative to the air around it, or the cup that is dancing on it.
everything you can think of that exists is made of matter.
except for one thing ...thought.
your thoughts are a part of the endless space that isn't matter ...it is possible to experience as well ...when you stop thinking materialy.
well you can break that down even farther then, and forget about the frequencies, and rewrite it using the quarks themselves.
and they have now discovered that there is something even beyond quarks....
Yeah. I was just making the point that most of science hasn't caught up with the whole notion of relativity. We are still using matter based models because they work even though they are known to be incomplete and/or out of date.
it went in completely the wrong direction ...you want proof?
look around at the damage and threats!
actually i was just re-reading my book by stephen hawking, and according to him, einstien's relativity theory doesnt hold up in some areas, which means the whole thing is flawed......
finaly someone agrees with me!
I do too. We took the wrong path, but are to ignorant to admit it and backtrack.
Either way, at least Einsteins theory was better. But we sohuld admit we've got it wrong again and start afresh.
religion has discredited the spiritual aproach.
the laws against mind expanding substances has discredited the spiritual aproach ...as has abuse of such substances.
our material based science is corrupted by ignoring the realm of the spiritual mind body reality.
our material based science is ever more corrupted by proffit and consumerism and the want and need for gadgets that entertain but do little if anything at all to enlighten mankind.
our science is destroying the only world we have but still we have faith in it.
one thing that scientists seem to agree on is ...the most amazing thing yet discovered in the universe is ...the brain mind connection of man.
how does the physical brain ...produce none physical thought?
and then they ignore the none physical and resort to cutting flesh.
because we only seem able to do materialy based science.
ignoring thousands of years of harmony with mind and matter till our science gets to the point of entertaining partialy curing but basicaly destroying everything we need to thrive and survive.
and some call this advancement.
i'd rather be living with sitting bull or jesus than george bush.
ok ive just found a passage from stephen hawking's book.... " Assuming we dont destroy ourselves in the next hundred years, it is likely that we will spread out first to the planets in the solar system and then to the nearby stars. "
he also goes on to state that there probably is life out there, but not intelligent life, as he believes intelligence is its own worst enemy. there is lots of unintelligent life out there, but intelligent life reaches a point where they are too smart for there own good, and end up destroying themselves.
how the hell can we hope to live and thrive on any of the planets in our own solar system?
we may well be able to have a small colony on mars ...in a bubble ...and thats it.
when mother earth cannot supply this conoly with goodies it is doomed.
all the other planets are dead or out of reach.
our science hasn't even yet discovered other planets with any certainty outside our solar system ...maybe ...but possibly not.
there is no proof yet.
if we get the proof ...we might just be able to send some people there ...freeze them for twenty thousand years only to find ...it aint covered in grass with meat wondering about ...no oceans full of fish ...no birds or bugger all else to eat.
Anyway, theres life out there as far as I amc oncerned? Why hasn't it made "proper" contact with us? Becasue its intelligent enough to know we fucked this one up, big style!
On an Alien note, they are making another WotW film! I think they should make a new one, where the aliens wins.
LOL, hawking a twat huh? arguably the smartest man to ever live. but believe what you will.
there will be colonies on mars, the moon, io, ganamede.
and we have discovered planets WITH certainty, lots of them. and alot closer than you think, alpha centari has planets, 2 that they have detected, and from the distance from the star to the planet and the size of the planet they have determined that one COULD be earth like ( i think in their terms that just means it has liquid water ). They have determined this by watching the oscililation of the stars ( meaning the gravitational tug of war between star and planet. just imagine spinning in a circle by yourself, you would spin in a complete circle, but now face someone hold hands and start spinning while trying to pull the other person towards you. )
and alpha centari is only 4.3 light years away. a long way but in cosmological terms its just next door