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Proof of "terrorist" attack on 9/11 please. I don't mean proof that they were attacked, I mean definitive proof that it was the action of a "terrorist" organisation. It should be easy to find....but wait....
Madrid bombings? Didn't ETA claim those? Or do you have proof otherwise?
Aside from these obvious considerations. That's 2 "terrorist" attacks in 5 years. Any idea of the loss of life to the automobile in that time? Or cancer? Hell even badly designed microwaves have claimed more lives. How about a sense of perspective?
Instead of cutting off all civil liberties, why not just admit it's a cost of "civilisation" and move the fuck on?
Or, why not persecute the makers of cars and such with equal vigor?
You compare a dodgy microwave to this?
how many people die in the western world from terrorism again?
42,800 from car accidents in the US alone per year. We aren't advocating a complete change of our way of life due to car accidents are we? Why do you think that is?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7589224/
Try this site for a sense of perspective -
http://www.jimpix.co.uk/words/terror.asp
Yes indeed Slippy, we all saw the "effects" of 911 and Madrid, but at no time was the public allowed a comprehensive, fully public investigation into every last forensic aspect of those events, no not with the readily prepared curtain of "national security" waiting to be drawn tightly shut. Obviously tis you who forgets the laughably limited scope of enquiry mandated to the long resisted Congressional 911 enquiry (dealing only with cleverly truncated and quite nebulous "intelligence failures") or the fact that those chosen to head that commission were predominantly all linked to big oil and military arms interests themselves. Moreover, you seem to forget that what WAS told to the public, mere days after these events, was a astoundingly convenient roster of names (a fair number of whom - in the case of 911 - turned up quite alive and well and unconnected to any proximity to NYC in their countries of origin).
As i pointed out back in 2002 when i first arrived here, this charade has never been proven and has indeed led to the very conditions I argued would come to pass (despite the same sort of willful denials and dismissals we continue to see to this day).
What is most appalling to those who adhere to critical thought is the extent to which so many supposedly intelligent people can tenaciously refuse to ask the most basic questions (and the one most demonstrably evident) pursued by criminal investigators, namely "who had the greatest opportunity", " who had the greatest means" and "who stood to gain the most".
Two unhindered wars of hegemonic conquest and co-option later (repleat with successfully installed compliant puppets) and continually escalating hundreds of billions of dollars being pumped into the transatlantic Military Industrial Complex and (as mentioned previously) rapidly expanding "security" market, the more likely suspects remain unscrutinised, unindicted and unaccountable.
But of course, youll find more than enough company here willing to cling to the myth that it must be ragtag shadowy figures in caves who perpetrated the most sophisticated multiple strike over the most well defended airspace in the Western hemisphere, because to believe that those you see being raised from strength to strength in Washington couldnt possibly serve such an evil "at any cost" agenda.
Enjoy the fantasy whilst it lasts!
Actually he compared it to the death toll, not the act.
However, the number of terrorist attacks on the UK mainland in the past ten years is what - zero? Yet I see no ID cards and we have only recently reintroduced internment - a policy dismissed in the 70s as unworkable.
If you want to fight the threat to our freedoms, the you must use our freedoms, not remove them.
As klintock says, and it's rare we agree, terrorism is the price of civilisation. In Rich Kid's terms the "acceptable" price.
BTW I noticed that you haven't handed yourself in yet, does that mean that you don't think that your incarceration is worthwhile?
Fair play Clandestine, I don't agrre with all of it but for fucks sake-
magnificent argument, it had a crescendo!
Another way - "Well said!"
:grump:
It's not enough to bang somebody up. It's the people who are hell-bent on murder that have to be put away for a long time, not the ones who decide not to go through with a terrorist act.
If you think thirteen years (or even seven or eight years with good behaviour) is a stroll in the park, you should try it.
not if peiople were willing to die for their cause anyway
UK Death toll from smoking since 9/11: 280,000 (approx.)
UK Death toll from alcohol since 9/11: 70,000 (approx.)
Global Death toll from cars since 9/11: 12,500,000 (approx.)
Global death toll from conventional weapons since 9/11: 1,166,666(approx.)
Global death toll from starvation since 9/11: 38,325,000 (approx.)
Global death toll from HIV/AIDS since 9/11: 30,660,000 (approx.)
Wheres GWB and Tony's war on smoking?
18 minutes - the length of time america would have to suspend military spending in order to feed, clothe, educate and house every single person who dies of starvation for a whole year.
I for one would not be willing to spend the rest of my live in prison for something which I did not do and I am not a worthless sniveling excuse of a human being. We have due process and innocent until proven guilty which are here to protect authoritarian measures which you seem to advocate. How will imprisoning innocent people stop terrorist attacks, I don’t understand your logic...
My liberty and freedom are important to me and you are suggesting the curtailing of these rights for no reason what so ever. To be honest sir you are a bit of twit for even suggesting that.
Please! - everyone is entitled to their viewpoint on this thread however feasible or unfeasible we feel certain stances/ideas may be. So please, Turlough could you please stay within the limits of reasoned non-impassioned debate or at least try to be civil and courteous in response to Born slippy's comments. Thank you.
Let's not get into critiquing please, that's my job! The message is clear for everyone - reasoned debate - my eye just fell on Turlough this time, that's all, but the message is for EVERYONE.
Turlough has some interesting lines of thought on these politics&debate boards. This one comment was OTT, that's all.
Now I'm going to leave you guys to debate sensibly.
Cheers x
terrorism is all about terrorising people ...instilling fear ...are you now a terrorist?