Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

cannabis education march and rally may 15

2456

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder if there are any figures into smoking rates causing mental health problems, or are there any alcohol related ones? Well if you google it then what you find is that for those things it's the other way around - that people who already are mentally ill have symptoms exacerbated by fags and beer. For the socially acceptable drugs it's the people who are ill first, for the nonsocially acceptable ones drugs cause the illness. Quite why this should be the case and presented as such is pretty obvious. Ching ching!

    All the reports go from statistics to conclusion in a straight to video fashion that should shock any hafway intelligent person.

    I don't suppose that it occured to anyone that cannabis smokers use it to reduce their symptoms?

    I also wonder what type of schizoid behaviour was most evident in the people commited. Some links say psychotic. They all assume that schizophrenia is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, which is not actually true in all/many cases.

    And finally I wonder if the type of person most likely to be attracted to drug use (in general) and other "underground" activities isn't already likely to be considered "mentally ill" by those who don't think the same way*. Certainly in the tragic suicide case there is a strong undertone of foisting the blame onto drugs.

    * In soviet Russia there were no criminals, everyone who didn't obey the law was considered mentally ill. Because it was such a paradise, apparently
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As far as i'm concerned if you accept alcohol (and to a lesser extent tobacco) as a reasonable part of a functioning society then you have to accept cannabis.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    regular cannabis use = increased risk of mental health problems.
    Uhm yeah... could ya answer my questions please?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:

    Just an observation...the supposed "signs" of mental illness mentioned in those links are mostly ordinary effects of pyschedelics...i.e. hallucinations, paranoia, delusions etc...which are half the fun.

    If you're smoking a shitload every day, and have been for a substantial period of time, then you're obviously going to exhibit such symptoms day-to-day.

    Studies on cannabis use in the UK will always be infallible anyway...the reason being the majority of "cannabis" on sale isn't actually cannabis at all...rather a mixture of other drugs (I would hazard a guess at mainly tranqs, going by the effect).

    It seems somewhat absurd that it's fairly recently that mental health-related issues are becoming prevelent...when the majority of so-called cannabis smokers are not in fact what could be described as cannabis users. Looking back to the '60s/'70s/early '80s - when hash was largely of a comparatively high quality - the lack of people from this era suffering mental health problems through cannabis use seems very strange indeed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whilst not having the time to read through all the links, I'd imagine that the information they hold is statistics, correlations... eh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    regular cannabis use = increased risk of mental health problems.

    Be warned!

    http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg18524921.300[/url]

    OK, taking the one decent source, it also says
    Iversen isn't the only doubter. Last year John Macleod of the University of Birmingham, UK, carried out a systematic review of the 16 high-quality long-term studies that have looked at cannabis and mental health and concluded that there was "no strong evidence" of a link with psychosis (The Lancet, vol 363, p 1579). "I'm not saying there is no causal association, but at the moment, by the conventional standards of epidemiology, the evidence is not particularly strong," he says.

    I have no doubt that cannabis causes mental health problems in a minority of users. For some people it can cause anxiety and paranoia (which is why I quit), but these mild symptoms go away after stopping smoking. For some people it can precipitate longer lasting mental health problems, but these are in the minority. Personally I think the cannbis debate is too polarised. The pro-cannabis lobby deny any harm at all and the anti-cannabis lobby massively over exaggerate the damage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would you care to answer my question Rich Kid?

    Let me refresh your memory.

    Earlier you said this:
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Cannabis users should be forced to go on a detox programme. Its a disgusting habit that accelerates mental illness in the users, using up precious NHS resources for self-inflicted harm.


    And I asked you this:

    "I trust you believe people who drink alcohol should be treated exactly the same?"

    Well?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Other countries, particualrly those who adopted a soft line on cannabis are now getting worried:

    In Holland research has shown that 13% of all schizpphrenia cases are attributable to regular cannabis use. With increased use, the age of first use falling, and the stregnth of cannabis increasing, the figure will increase significantly.

    The first hints of possible long-term harm came from Jamaica in the 1960s, where doctors noticed that Rastafarians who were heavy dope smokers seemed unusually prone to psychotic illnesses. The suspicion grew in the 1980s, when studies led by Robin Murray of the Institute of Psychiatry in London showed that patients with schizophrenia or some other kind of psychosis, were twice as likely as those without mental illness to be regular cannabis users.

    But it wasn't until a major Swedish study was published in 1987 that a link between cannabis and long-term mental health problems was established. A team from the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm analysed the records of all the young men who had done national service in the Swedish army in 1969 and 1970 - 50,087 in total, representing about 97 per cent of the male population aged 18 to 20. The records included details of the men's experiences with drugs before being called up, including age at first use, what they had taken and how often.

    The team then checked out each man's medical history up to the mid-1980s. They found that those who had smoked cannabis before being called up were six times as likely to end up in hospital with schizophrenia as non-users. This, the team concluded, provided clear evidence that smoking cannabis was a risk factor for psychosis.

    regualr cannabis use = increased risk of mental illness BE WARNED.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Studies on cannabis use in the UK will always be infallible anyway...the reason being the majority of "cannabis" on sale isn't actually cannabis at all...rather a mixture of other drugs (I would hazard a guess at mainly tranqs, going by the effect).

    Have you got any evidence for that?

    Most sedatives wouldnt smoke anyway, and would be harder to get your hands on, and would smell differently.

    I have heard reports that Salvia has been mixed in but thats quite a rarity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regular alcohol use =
    • Heart disease
    • Cancer of the liver
    • Mental problems
    • Up to 100,000 deaths per year in the UK alone
    • Responsible for most crime in the UK
    • Can lead to spouse abuse, brawling, fighting, rapes and general disorder
    • Is responsible for thousands of deaths and injuries on our roads every year

    So I'll ask you again Rich Kid: Do you believe that alcohol users, like cannabis users, should be forced to enter detox programmes to help them get off that "disgusting habit" that causes so many problems and costs the NHS so much money?

    Yes or no?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It does appear that long term and heavy use of cannabis is linked to mental health concerns.

    Though whether cannabis causes mental health problems or just makes them worse is definately not certain.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    It does appear that long term and heavy use of cannabis is linked to mental health concerns.
    At last some sense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    At last some sense.

    And that is exactly why we should educate people in a sensible and open way.

    The truth is cannabis is socially far less damaging than alcohol, it does have personal health concerns but so do many other things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    The truth is cannabis is socially far less damaging than alcohol, it does have personal health concerns but so do many other things.
    I'm not denying that alcohol also exacts a social price as do many other things such as junk food, driving a car, tobacco smoking, buggery, prozac, and socialism.
    Your statement "cannabis is socially far less damaging than alcohol" requires a lot more empirical research and evidence before such a claim can be substantiated.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would you care to answer my question Rich Kid?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    I'm not denying that alcohol also exacts a social price as do many other things such as junk food, driving a car, tobacco smoking, buggery, prozac, and socialism.
    Your statement "cannabis is socially far less damaging than alcohol" requires a lot more empirical research and evidence before such a claim can be substantiated.

    A) What is the social cost of anal sex?

    B) You look in an A&E department on the weekend and tell me who is stonned.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    No.
    Could it be because you are a hypocrite and a troll, and have been found out (yet again)?

    Or is there any other reason why you don't want to answer a simple question?

    Try to save some face, if you can- though I fear is far too late for that now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wake up lamp boy, please try and keep up, I've already answered your question.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Wake up lamp boy, please try and keep up, I've already answered your question.

    So what makes users of alcohol and cannabis so different then?

    And did you fancy answering my questions?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    So what makes users of alcohol and cannabis so different then?
    Normal decent society accepts the use of alcohol, it doesn't accept cannabis.
    And did you fancy answering my questions?
    What questions?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    A) What is the social cost of anal sex?
    Buggery is a prime method of being infected with HIV/Aids.
    It is sinful and against the Natural Order.
    B) You look in an A&E department on the weekend and tell me who is stonned.
    So, alcohol is sold in pubs, clubs, off-licences etc, it is widely available and widely abused.
    Society may one day turn against alcohol just as it is doing against cannabis and other drugs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Wake up lamp boy, please try and keep up, I've already answered your question.
    Oh so the 'no' was the actual answer to my original question, rather than an statement that you did not want to answer it?

    Well I do beg your pardon.

    Now I was going to ask you why the different treatment but I see that bongbudda has already done so and you have answered to it.

    But it doesn't make any sense I'm afraid. Firstly it's wrong. What makes you believe that "normal decent society" (I thought you didn't believe in society anyway) accepts the use of alcohol but not cannabis?

    What society would this be, exactly?

    And secondly, and more importantly, you claim that cannabis should be kept illegal and its users punished or forced into detox programmes on health grounds. Yet alcohol is a drug far, far more damaging than cannabis to both individuals and society as a whole. Surely you should be campaigning for alcohol to be banned and its users forced into detox?

    Or could it be that like with oral sex, your sense righteousness ends at your doorstep and does not apply to those activities and habits you indulge in?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Society may one day turn against alcohol just as it is doing against cannabis and other drugs.
    like america once did ...creating the most powerful crime syndicates along with chaos corruption murder and poisonings.
    fantastic idea dick!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Buggery is a prime method of being infected with HIV/Aids.
    It is sinful and against the Natural Order.
    Is oral sex sinful and against the Natural Order?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Normal decent society accepts the use of alcohol, it doesn't accept cannabis.

    Most people accept its relatively harmless, in fact in many polls the majority come out in favor of decriminalising.

    But again I say thats not the point, the law is there to minimise harm, by making the sentances harder you increase the harm.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Other countries, particualrly those who adopted a soft line on cannabis are now getting worried:

    In Holland research has shown that 13% of all schizpphrenia cases are attributable to regular cannabis use. With increased use, the age of first use falling, and the stregnth of cannabis increasing, the figure will increase significantly.

    The first hints of possible long-term harm came from Jamaica in the 1960s, where doctors noticed that Rastafarians who were heavy dope smokers seemed unusually prone to psychotic illnesses. The suspicion grew in the 1980s, when studies led by Robin Murray of the Institute of Psychiatry in London showed that patients with schizophrenia or some other kind of psychosis, were twice as likely as those without mental illness to be regular cannabis users.

    But it wasn't until a major Swedish study was published in 1987 that a link between cannabis and long-term mental health problems was established. A team from the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm analysed the records of all the young men who had done national service in the Swedish army in 1969 and 1970 - 50,087 in total, representing about 97 per cent of the male population aged 18 to 20. The records included details of the men's experiences with drugs before being called up, including age at first use, what they had taken and how often.

    The team then checked out each man's medical history up to the mid-1980s. They found that those who had smoked cannabis before being called up were six times as likely to end up in hospital with schizophrenia as non-users. This, the team concluded, provided clear evidence that smoking cannabis was a risk factor for psychosis.

    regualr cannabis use = increased risk of mental illness BE WARNED.


    I love your selective quotation. Blind yourself to anything that doesn't back up your claims.

    P.S.
    Its good manners to include a reference if you're going to quote something
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    So, alcohol is sold in pubs, clubs, off-licences etc, it is widely available and widely abused.
    Society may one day turn against alcohol just as it is doing against cannabis and other drugs.

    So if alcohol is so dangerous, would you like to see it banned?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Have you got any evidence for that?

    Most sedatives wouldnt smoke anyway, and would be harder to get your hands on, and would smell differently.

    I have heard reports that Salvia has been mixed in but thats quite a rarity.

    Can I refer you to this
    http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=814048&postcount=246
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Normal decent society accepts the use of alcohol, it doesn't accept cannabis.

    Define "Normal decent society"? (I didn't think you believed in society anyway).
    Cannabis use is socially acceptable in a lot of places amongst a lot of people. Alcohol is not accepted in a lot of places by a lot of people...
Sign In or Register to comment.