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Telling The Truth

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    they deserve to be treated humanely.

    You could argue that locking them up isn't very humane...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You could argue that locking them up isn't very humane...

    Under some of the current conditions no its not, slopping out for example should have gone years ago.

    Humans have an tendancy to want to look at others as different as lower than us, and this always leads to trouble.

    Take abuse in prisons or old peoples homes, the abusers can do that because they dont see a person anymore, they see the 'scum' that Rich Kid talks about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just playing Devil's Advocate here - I do believe in the necessity of prisons - but take article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

    Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

    Liberty is seen as one of the most basic human rights.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just playing Devil's Advocate here - I do believe in the necessity of prisons - but take article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

    Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

    Liberty is seen as one of the most basic human rights.

    Well yes, but in some cases the right of society to life in safety over rides the persons right to freedom.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Well yes, but in some cases the right of society to life in safety over rides the persons right to freedom.

    Obviously I agree with you, but it does beg the question, if we've already accepted a certain level of cruelty (ie incarceration), at what point do we say 'too much'?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thats a difficult one, and of course does change depending on the type of prisoner that you have.

    I've got no serious objection of open prisons, or even day release, certain countries have them and they seem to be a success. But then that needs to only be for prisoners who dont pose a threat or are towards the end of their sentance.

    I just think much more needs to be but into the rehabilitation side of prison, its too focused on the punishment side. Which I believe shows in the re-offending rate which is stupidly high.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    rich kid ...you heard of substance?
    legal or illegal?
    Teh_Gerbil :
    I like how the Tories think putting more police on the streets would help. Labour's been doing that for the past two terms!
    No, lets our facts right, Labour has recruited more Police that is correct but they restricted them to office duties due the massive bureauracy they've introduced.
    So in summary, more police, more costs, but less effective police, increasing crime.
    bongabudda: I've got no serious objection of open prisons, or even day release, certain countries have them and they seem to be a success. But then that needs to only be for prisoners who dont pose a threat or are towards the end of their sentance.
    Day release, open prisons, what a load of nonsense. We want hard regime prisons so that criminals will not want to return should they reoffend and be caught. At the moment we've got Universities of Crime, which give each prisoner a thorough grounding in all aspects of criminology. They should be locked up 23 hrs a day, no gyms, TV, and all the other luxuries they enjoy.
    I just think much more needs to be but into the rehabilitation side of prison, its too focused on the punishment side. Which I believe shows in the re-offending rate which is stupidly high.
    Forget the rehabilitation, grind their noses into the dirt, they're scum who need to be taught a lesson. It shoud be a regime of absolute punishment from the moment they get up to the moment they go to sleep.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:

    Day release, open prisons, what a load of nonsense. We want hard regime prisons so that criminals will not want to return should they reoffend and be caught. At the moment we've got Universities of Crime, which give each prisoner a thorough grounding in all aspects of criminology. They should be locked up 23 hrs a day, no gyms, TV, and all the other luxuries they enjoy.


    .
    again you are qouting jeffry archer almost word for word when he was tory chairman.
    he soon changed his fucking tune didn't he ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    legal or illegal?


    No, lets our facts right, Labour has recruited more Police that is correct but they restricted them to office duties due the massive bureauracy they've introduced.
    So in summary, more police, more costs, but less effective police, increasing crime.


    Day release, open prisons, what a load of nonsense. We want hard regime prisons so that criminals will not want to return should they reoffend and be caught. At the moment we've got Universities of Crime, which give each prisoner a thorough grounding in all aspects of criminology. They should be locked up 23 hrs a day, no gyms, TV, and all the other luxuries they enjoy.


    Forget the rehabilitation, grind their noses into the dirt, they're scum who need to be taught a lesson. It shoud be a regime of absolute punishment from the moment they get up to the moment they go to sleep.


    As someone who works with ex-offenders, I can tell you that harsh punishments don't work. People who commit crime don't think about the consequences, it just isn't on their radar most of the time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Forget the rehabilitation, grind their noses into the dirt, they're scum who need to be taught a lesson. It shoud be a regime of absolute punishment from the moment they get up to the moment they go to sleep.

    Do you have ANY compassion for your fellow humans at all?

    If you treat someone like an animal they will behave like one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Do you have ANY compassion for your fellow humans at all?
    According to him, lots and lots... :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Back to the topic in hand.

    Phoney Blair has always denied that he sanctioned the exposure of Dr David Kelly.

    Asked on a plane trip to Hong Kong on 22 Jyly 2003: "Why did you authorise the naming of David Kelly?" He replied: "That is completely untrue".

    Pressed on whether he asked anyone in Downing Street to do it on his behalf he replied: "Emphatically not. I did not authorise the leaking of the name of David Kelly."

    Last night on BBC2's Newsnight, he finally admitted that he did authorise the naming of Dr David Kelly and said he had "no option but to disclsoe the name."

    So who can believe a word Phoney Blair says, he's a congenital liar.

    Phoney by name and phoney by character - the word "truth" doesn't exist in his vocabulary.
    Trust Phoney? I'd rather trust a crack addict pointing a loaded gun at my forehead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If he's so obviously a liar and so obviously this country is going to the dogs why are Labour at least 5 points ahead in the polls?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who is Phoney Blair?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This Phoney Blair, the man who doesn't know truth from fiction.

    Phoney Blair has always denied that he sanctioned the exposure of Dr David Kelly.

    Asked on a plane trip to Hong Kong on 22 July 2003: "Why did you authorise the naming of David Kelly?" He replied: "That is completely untrue".

    Pressed on whether he asked anyone in Downing Street to do it on his behalf he replied: "Emphatically not. I did not authorise the leaking of the name of David Kelly."

    Last night on BBC2's Newsnight, he finally admitted that he did authorise the naming of Dr David Kelly and said he had "no option but to disclose the name."

    So who can believe a word Phoney Blair says, he's a congenital liar.

    Phoney by name and phoney by character - the word "truth" doesn't exist in his vocabulary.
    Trust Phoney? I'd rather trust a crack addict pointing a loaded gun at my forehead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Politician in not telling truth scandal!

    Shocking.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    If he's so obviously a liar and so obviously this country is going to the dogs why are Labour at least 5 points ahead in the polls?

    Did you have an aswer for that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it me, or is Phoney Blairs nose getting longer?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Is it me, or is Phoney Blairs nose getting longer?

    I think its you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Did you have an aswer for that?

    Yea. Liars and con-men can get away with murder - sometimes literally.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Yea. Liars and con-men can get away with murder - sometimes literally.

    You dont have a high regard for the public at large then do you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    You dont have a high regard for the public at large then do you.
    We've all been "conned" at some time. It just makes you wary of these con artists when they appear.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    We've all been "conned" at some time. It just makes you wary of these con artists when they appear.

    But it would seem odd if so many people could be 'conned' by Labour for this long, maybe we're just not very smart as a nation.

    Or maybe things arent quite as bad as you say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Liars and con-men can get away with murder - sometimes literally.

    Tell me about it:

    DAILY HATEMAIL: "IMMIGRATION OUT OF CONTROL"

    S*N: "GYPSIES OUT OF CONTROL"

    SEXPRESS: "CRIME OUT OF CONTROL"

    All lies, damned lies and right wing lying scumbags.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Daily Mail & Express, are in my view, doing the public a great service by bravely highlighting the key issues that concern people in this country today. These are thorny issues that many politicians on the Left are particularly careful not to address because they know they have no real solutions.

    It is hardly surprising therefore that people get suspicious when they don't hear Labour politicians facing up to these concerns - whats the secret agenda they ask?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    These are thorny issues that many politicians on the Left are particularly careful not to address because they know they have no real solutions.

    Which politicians on the Left? Whose on the Left?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Which politicians on the Left? Whose on the Left?
    Labour party.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Labour are not a left wing party.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Labour party.

    That should probably make the Conservatives Left too then, given that they are wanting only 1% a year less spending growth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    The Daily Mail & Express, are in my view, doing the public a great service by bravely highlighting the key issues that concern people in this country today. These are thorny issues that many politicians on the Left are particularly careful not to address because they know they have no real solutions.
    One thing is highlighting an issue and another thing deliberately lying and misleading to present the situation far worse than it is.

    And you know as well as anybody else that is what those tabloids have been doing.
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