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Terri Schiavo Dies
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4398131.stm
i think justice has been done here...i'm sure terri herself was in an unmeasurable amount of mental grief being in that condition...i'm glad she is now in a better place...but what annoys me is people saying "you can't play God" in situations like this...well prove that god exists and i'll take your point you pretentious twit :mad: in situations like this...common sense prevails and i'm glad it has...despite the efforts of some man nutters...bush being one...
i think justice has been done here...i'm sure terri herself was in an unmeasurable amount of mental grief being in that condition...i'm glad she is now in a better place...but what annoys me is people saying "you can't play God" in situations like this...well prove that god exists and i'll take your point you pretentious twit :mad: in situations like this...common sense prevails and i'm glad it has...despite the efforts of some man nutters...bush being one...
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Which is what was happening when she was being artificially fed.
Hope she is at rest now.
There really aren't the words for this kind of thing.
rest in peace, Terri.
Hearing Dubya speak about "protecting the lives of the innocent" while trying to justify his actions in this case made me sick to my stomach. What a shameful spectacle this has been.
Perhaps they can now aggressively advance their "pro-life" crusade by attempting to make good on the death threats they and their ilk have made against doctors and judges in this case. Now that would truly lend credibility to their humanitarian claims!
Ive thought long and hard about what sort of solution should be found to placate these fundie lunatics and provide them their wish for a theocratic state...
Immediate revocation of US citizenship (since they clearly dont like the Constitutional principles upon which it was founded) and free deporatation to Iran where they can enjoy all the repressionistic controls theocracy has to offer!
Please can someone explain to me the moral difference between this and a lethal dose of morphine?
Morphine being a pain killer, in that insted of spending many days in torment and pain she could have eased from life free from suffering.
At least with the death penalty they give someone a lethal injection so its over quickly. A DNR i can understand, but starving and dehydrating someone till they die seems barbaric. Please note that the husband had ulterior motives for wanting her dead. he`d started a family with someone else.
Only after about 10 years, he didnt run off with the other lady straight away and was still a regular at the hospital, what was he supposed to do? She had no reponse or anything.
He wanted her dead so it would neatly tie up the loose ends on his "new life" - he is an absolute hypocrite! She did respond but it got harder once they started starving the poor woman!
I suppose I'm not surprised by your reaction, (and others on this thread), you support abortion - the killing of the innocent unborn, and no doubt following your own strange immoral logic you also condone euthenasia, (so-called "mercy killing" - how well you disguise nasty immoral concepts with a so-called "caring" phrase!)? So our old people suffering from dementia had better beware otherwise their costly treatment in rest homes will be cruelly curtailed by the Death Brigade, so too the plight of the physically & mentally handicapped, and what about the life of an unborn child who is perhaps not of the sex wanted by the mother, will it also receive a death sentence?
The Death Brigade is alive and well and living on this thread!
Yep, and those with ginger hair and those who are left handed.
Is your obviously flippant remark simply a mask for the other nasty immoral "death sitautions" you support?
I was flippant because your reply was purile.
Anyway, yes, I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion, no one is pro abortion its unpleasant and not really something I like the thought of.
The woman in this case was effectively dead as far as I am concerned, there was no brain function at all, she couldnt move or anything, how do you define life?
And yes, I do believe in a persons right to choose their exit in life, if I say at X point please do the decent thing and give me a big hit of morphine thats my choice.
God gives life, God takes away life, it is not for man to decide when a human life is finished, and its immensely arrogant to do so. Through suffering we can gain redemption as Jesus did on the Cross for us.
I appreciate you may not be a Christian but thats my belief.
I notice that you have still avoided the other issues I raised. Any reason?
My issue is that she wasnt even brain dead. She was severely disabled definitel, she couldnt do anything for herself, but she was breathing on her own. Not much of a life for sure, but in the absence of a living will, it was certainly tricky. If they wanted her to die, they should have given her extra painkillers or something to help her on her way. Not starve her and dehydrate her till her body gives up.
As for the husband. he had another family. He should have divorced her, or he certainly shouldnt have had any say in her treatment after starting a family with someone else. Her parents wanted to keep her alive. Their wishes should have taken priority over the husbands after he`d got with someone else. its not as if she was having a life of pain, and its not as if it was on the NHS.
So I hope you will agree that those who do not share your beliefs should indeed be in charge of deciding to end their own lives with dignity. Those who believe in God are indeed welcome to 'leave it to him' to take their lives away.
So you disagree with any medical treatment?
I can see why you would have an issue with this, but its not as clear cut as you make out, one could easily argue that someone with no brain function that can not feed or do anything at all has come to the end of their life, that God has called time for them.
As for when you 'pull the plug' on people, that is a tough one, there of course should be checks stops on it, I think if a person suffering a degenerative disorder wants to end it themself then they should be allowed. But when they are not consious it becomes more troublesome.
As for the doctor committing murder, I ask you again whats the difference between watching them starve and giving them morphine?
She wasn't brain dead. If God had called time then she would have stopped breathing.
"Troublesome" is a nice neat little word that you use, immoral is nearer the mark.
Do you "pull the plug" (to use your elegant phrase), when an old elderly loved one is in dementia? Do you do the same if a child is mentally & physically disabled and severely handicapped? Etc Etc.
I think it was terrible to starve her to death, it was like something out of a Nazi film showing experiments on humans. In my view Doctors are there to preserve life not act as "killers" no matter what fine words you employ to cover up the fact!
Well perhaps given that she couldnt move or feed herself that was God calling time? I'm not saying it is, but the line isnt clear.
And no, I dont think we should be bumping off people all over the place for those conditions, it should be a case by case choice based on expectation of pain and whether the person will ever actually be able to experience anything.
So if I know my brother/parent/partner/wife/etc is only going to get worse, that they will experience more and more pain, that their life will only get worse untill they die in agony I should just accept it as God's way and let it happen?
I suppose Dr Shipman thought he was doing those frail old ladies a good turn by overdosing them!
Well no actually, long term pain is very difficult, opiates are about the only decent option and they have tolerance issues.
And you can keep mentioning Shipman but just like the first time you did it has NOTHING to do with this issue.
The line should be drawn by the Hippocratic Oath which says "above all I shall not play God". Their job is to save lives not to act like some Nazi death-camp killer.
No. They weren't. As you know full well.
So do stop the Shipman name dropping if you will. At the end of the day you really don't want to go down that route, given the things some members of the clergy have done...
No. That is not what I am advocating at all. I'm trying to spell it out in simple terms for you but it doesnt seem to be working.
Shipman was a mass murderer, thats different, hopefully you can see that.
I made definate reference to checks and stops, to when there is severe and lasting pain, thats NOT the same.