Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

The REAL threat to the NHS

2

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i see taxes going up, i see people working past 70, i see people being given the ultimatum of changing their ways or paying for treatment that is their fault e.g. fat people, smokers etc.......it's just a matter of time, things arent desperate enough yet......lol i dont see the rich getting taxed proportionally more (than they are already, if you know what i mean), that is the last thing that will happen.........why not tax the fuck out of the richest 1% of people, who own something like 13/14% of the world's entire wealth, that might do some good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Panthro wrote:
    Is that why it takes a celebrity chef to highlight the shite that kids are fed in school - oh what was announced today, yes millions into increasing the quality of school meals.

    I don't think that is entirely fair. My understanding is that Clarke was already looking at this issue when he was Ed Sec, then when he moved on Ruth Kelly took up the issue and consulted with Jamie Oliver before his programme was broadcast. I could be wrong though.

    However, it is also worth noting that the Govt White Paper on public health addressed this issue months ago.

    The only reason solution is the one which Bumble Bee refers to and that is people taking some responsibility for their own health. But also it means that the NHS will have to develop over the next few years from a system which treats people after the are ill, to one which helps them prevent illness in the first place. IMHO.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think that is entirely fair. My understanding is that Clarke was already looking at this issue when he was Ed Sec, then when he moved on Ruth Kelly took up the issue and consulted with Jamie Oliver before his programme was broadcast. I could be wrong though.

    However, it is also worth noting that the Govt White Paper on public health addressed this issue months ago.

    The only reason solution is the one which Bumble Bee refers to and that is people taking some responsibility for their own health. But also it means that the NHS will have to develop over the next few years from a system which treats people after the are ill, to one which helps them prevent illness in the first place. IMHO.


    because peopel expect this to be a matter for national politicians when its normally a matter for LEAs who dish out the school dinner contracts, who went as cheap as possible, corruption mainly exists at the local level coz noone cares apart from their council tax bills
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But also it means that the NHS will have to develop over the next few years from a system which treats people after the are ill, to one which helps them prevent illness in the first place. IMHO.

    But surely this doesn' get round the fact that old people will be ill at some point and certainly more so than younger people.

    The only way is for people to work for longer, it simply has to happen.

    I have little doubt that I will work until i am 70 and that my grandchildren will wok until they are 75............
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The retirement ages of 60 and 65 were set when he majority of people started work at 14 and died in their early to mid 60s.

    Now the youngest you can leave education is 16 and many people don't leave until their 21 and iive until well into their 70s. It seems fair to me we change the retirement age.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree, wasn't complaining.

    The problem is that I should be able to do this because I am likely to have a career in an office environment.

    What worries me is the possible iniquitous impact concerning those in more manual trades for whom it is more difficult to work longer.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Double Post
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    I agree, wasn't complaining.

    The problem is that I should be able to do this because I am likely to have a career in an office environment.

    What worries me is the possible iniquitous impact concerning those in more manual trades for whom it is more difficult to work longer.......


    Would you want a 70 year old nurse or doctor treating you??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why not?

    I am not suggesting that people be kept on past their ability to do their job, especially if the alternative is no doctor at all...........

    I am sure there are plenty of 70 year old doctors anyway.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Panthro wrote:
    Would you want a 70 year old nurse or doctor treating you??

    I'd rather a competent 70 year old than an incompetent 35 year old.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    But surely this doesn' get round the fact that old people will be ill at some point and certainly more so than younger people.

    Indeed, but many of the conditions affecting todays generation are preventable. Things such as COPD, Liver disease, heart disease etc can be reduced if only we managed things better now.

    How you life you life right now will determine your health in 50 years time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    THe solution is simple: Privitise the NHS, get people to pay for their own healthcare and not other peoples. Its the only way to avoid disaster.
    Exactly right Matadore, just like paying premiums for your house or car insurance, let everyone pay for their healthcare. Why should I pay massive taxes for other people to lay around in NHS hospitals, I've got my own health to look after, in fact I already do so through BUPA's top-notch plan, no waiting lists, dirty wards, or any of that crap. Any problem straight into a hotel-like private hospital ward, and thats how I like it and want to keep it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Exactly right Matadore, just like paying premiums for your house or car insurance, let everyone pay for their healthcare. Why should I pay massive taxes for other people to lay around in NHS hospitals, I've got my own health to look after, in fact I already do so through BUPA's top-notch plan, no waiting lists, dirty wards, or any of that crap. Any problem straight into a hotel-like private hospital ward, and thats how I like it and want to keep it.
    very rare i use the word hate ...but i fucking hate people like you.
    i come up against arseholes like you on a daily basis ...i usualy manage to sweep your kind to one side. and financialy as well.
    i would love you and your arogance to come across me and my lack of education one day ...i'd do my damndest to leave you in the gutter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Exactly right Matadore, just like paying premiums for your house or car insurance, let everyone pay for their healthcare. Why should I pay massive taxes for other people to lay around in NHS hospitals, I've got my own health to look after, in fact I already do so through BUPA's top-notch plan, no waiting lists, dirty wards, or any of that crap. Any problem straight into a hotel-like private hospital ward, and thats how I like it and want to keep it.

    Again. You wouldn't be saying that if you were living on the poverty line, or would you just die quietly? :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Why should I pay massive taxes for other people to lay around in NHS hospitals, I've got my own health to look after, in fact I already do so through BUPA's top-notch plan, no waiting lists, dirty wards, or any of that crap. Any problem straight into a hotel-like private hospital ward, and thats how I like it and want to keep it.

    have you any idea what you're talking about...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    have you any idea what you're talking about...
    Every word my friend. In fact how I remain so restrained I do not know when I read some of the postings!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    let everyone pay for their healthcare

    Again, if they cannot afford to?
    I already do so through BUPA's top-notch plan, no waiting lists, dirty wards, or any of that crap.

    No Accident and Emergency, no intensive care unit, no mental health ward, no geriatric ward, no stroke unit, no coronary care unit, often no MRI or CT scanner... do you want me to go on, or are you planning never to need any of those units?

    If you do then you will find that BUPA actually purchases these from the NHS...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again, if they cannot afford to?



    No Accident and Emergency, no intensive care unit, no mental health ward, no geriatric ward, no stroke unit, no coronary care unit, often no MRI or CT scanner... do you want me to go on, or are you planning never to need any of those units?

    If you do then you will find that BUPA actually purchases these from the NHS...
    ouch!
    the nhs have served me well ...and guess what RK ...millions more as well.
    should your ilk ever return to power and sucseed in privatising the nhs ...the poll tax riots will look like a picnic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again, if they cannot afford to?

    No Accident and Emergency, no intensive care unit, no mental health ward, no geriatric ward, no stroke unit, no coronary care unit, often no MRI or CT scanner... do you want me to go on, or are you planning never to need any of those units?

    If you do then you will find that BUPA actually purchases these from the NHS...

    Exactly. Rich Kid, if you have an accident where do you think you go? A&E I assume. BUPA don't have A&E departments. Similarly if an accident needs you leaving intensive care, BUPA aren't going to help you out there... again it would be the NHS. Would you refuse treatment in an NHS hospital? I wish all those who aren't in favour of the NHS would stop using it's services, then it might be in a bit better shape all round.

    One of the reasons the NHS suffers from long waiting times is because the doctors who see you at your local NHS hospital three afternoons a week are spending five mornings a week at local private hospitals. I don't claim to have a solution to this, but if more consultants etc worked primarily for NHS secondary care services then the waiting list times would be shorter. In effect the high demand for private consultations drives up NHS waiting times.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the likes of RK fail to see that it's actualy good for employers and business men ...to have a workforce that have accsess to instant health care.
    while he would like to abolish the minimum wage ...AND privatise health care ...as a business man he fails to see the faults in this idea. he is a bad business man.
    no one on two quid an hour is going to remain healthy or honest for long ...let alone pay for health care.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the likes of RK fail to see that it's actualy good for employers and business men ...to have a workforce that have accsess to instant health care.

    He would do well to look into an organisation called Kaiser Permente. They are a US health care organisation who work with businesses to provide preventative health care. Funnily enough it was the business who paid them, not the employee...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the likes of RK fail to see that it's actualy good for employers and business men ...to have a workforce that have accsess to instant health care.
    while he would like to abolish the minimum wage ...AND privatise health care ...as a business man he fails to see the faults in this idea. he is a bad business man.
    no one on two quid an hour is going to remain healthy or honest for long ...let alone pay for health care.

    Without wishing to be cynical it may be bad for the economy as a whole, but its not neccessarily bad for an individual businessman. If you're on minimum wage almost by definition you in a job where you can be easily replaced if you leave (whether its because your sick or you pack it in and head for a job which pays).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lets hope rich kid refuses A+E care from the NHS if he has an accident
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the likes of RK fail to see that it's actualy good for employers and business men ...to have a workforce that have accsess to instant health care.
    while he would like to abolish the minimum wage ...AND privatise health care ...as a business man he fails to see the faults in this idea. he is a bad business man.
    no one on two quid an hour is going to remain healthy or honest for long ...let alone pay for health care.


    reason why the nhs was created! even the tories supported it cause it elped busness
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    another threat to the NHS

    I heard that a journalist recently sent some questions to about 40 NHS trusts/hospitals (under the freedom of information act); the document was extensive with some questions having 14 sub questions. the conservative estimate was that it would take around 25 hours (a trust) to answer these questions - assuming an average hourly rate of £20 (senior NHS Manager) we are looking at in excess of £20000.

    is that a good way to spend that money?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again, if they cannot afford to?
    I support the idea of a basic safety net for those genuine cases of hardship but if they have assets (eg a house), then a charge should be put on it so that costs can evetually be repaid in part or in full.
    No Accident and Emergency, no intensive care unit, no mental health ward, no geriatric ward, no stroke unit, no coronary care unit, often no MRI or CT scanner... do you want me to go on, or are you planning never to need any of those units?

    If you do then you will find that BUPA actually purchases these from the NHS...
    I'll just pay for whats needed. End of story.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the likes of RK fail to see that it's actualy good for employers and business men ...to have a workforce that have accsess to instant health care.
    while he would like to abolish the minimum wage ...AND privatise health care ...as a business man he fails to see the faults in this idea. he is a bad business man.
    no one on two quid an hour is going to remain healthy or honest for long ...let alone pay for health care.
    Come on morrocan roll, lets get into the real world, who is going to pay anyone £2 an hour? Don't exaggerate!
    The state shouldn't interfere in matters such as rates of pay, they already overburden us with bureauracy and red tape which simply adds extra costs to our business when we perhaps could have employed more staff.
    Just for the record, we pay more than the minimum wage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hobbs wrote:
    I heard that a journalist recently sent some questions to about 40 NHS trusts/hospitals (under the freedom of information act); the document was extensive with some questions having 14 sub questions. the conservative estimate was that it would take around 25 hours (a trust) to answer these questions - assuming an average hourly rate of £20 (senior NHS Manager) we are looking at in excess of £20000.

    is that a good way to spend that money?

    It was the government that introduced this bill, and is LAW - therefore it must be done and as you said was an extensive list of questions.

    Vivent longtemps les NHS!!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich Kid wrote:
    Come on morrocan roll, lets get into the real world, who is going to pay anyone £2 an hour?
    Before the minimum wage was introduced? Shit loads of employers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Before the minimum wage was introduced? Shit loads of employers.
    Lets be frank, we've all heard the phrase, "pay peanuts and you get ...." so its quite obvious that any decent company will give its employees a generous package fitting the job and its responsibilites - its just that we don't need the government stepping in.
Sign In or Register to comment.