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16 killed, 80+ injured by Palestinian extremists
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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On the thread further down the page, you'll see how eager people where to blame it all on Israel, rather than expressing any disgust by the action or even sympathies towards the victims and their families.
May they RIP.
and like Kermit said there, it doesn't need condemnation.
I don't need to say that I'm don't approve of this sort of thing, again, I've already done it.
It's like starting a thread on the Nazis and not saying that the holocaust was terrible. It just doesn't need doing.
I am happy that you've found yourself a guru, but it does need condemnation. Or do I have to drag forward the Niemöller poem?
I'd hardly call him a guru, I quoted him. Like I'd quote hitler if it were relevant
It's not true. It's an act that doesn't need to be condemned. It goes without saying.
As someone from the outside, you wouldn't jump to the conclusion that anyone on this site was condemning the bombings of this morning.
The bombings this morning were terrible. But I don't hear you condemning the deaths of each Palestinian killed by the Israeli army.
Whoops got yourself a guru there have you?
I felt I needed to point out how ridiculous it is to say something like that just because you've quoted someone.
Anyone who is stupid enough not to know that it needs condemning I really don't have any interest in. People critiscised the Israeli government which is fair enough, because the debate was not 'what do you think of this' because it's bloody obvious it's terrible, but 'what do you think needs to be done'
What is it you want from us? Wailing and crying? to beat our chests and tear our hair in sympathy? How bloody silly would that be, no-one expects that when the Israeli army kills yet another Palestinian. Both sides are subject to international condemnation.
my condolences go out to families
and i hope that the israeli government realise it needs to make first move and negotiate a peace settlement with palestinian authority, not the militant groups
Neither do I jump on the wagon (ha! Who am I kidding?) to compare the Palestinians to Hitler, when such an incident against the Palestinians should take place.
Fine, jolly good, both sides are terrible, now would you like to debate, or are you going to continue to make snide comments (much in the spirit of many here)?
It's not the point, but if you feel any better and wittier by the quoting, then go on...
What I expect is just a little matter of respect, rather than being compared to Nazis.
I am seriously shocked by the way that no one in the thread was anywhere near the direction of sympathies or condemnation.
It's not like you treat everyone with respect now is it? Don't give can't expect to be given. Especially when it comes to Kermit.
As for the other I suspect it's because they'd didn't think it necessary, as has been stated by many people, it goes without saying.
Can we have a debate yet?
Who here is debating? Kermit who keeps mentioning people whom he'd like to strangle why placing a barpole in their assholes? Clandestine who keeps on with his propaganda? lukesh who is stuck in his blaming on the left-wing? Aladdin who tries to promote open-mindedness yet takes any dig possible at Christians? Me who keeps repeating herself?
This is not a debate forum I am afraid to say. It is merely a place to place frustrations without seeing any immedeate consequences.
As is often repeated, if you don't like it, go, but you are really not helping the situation.
Please keep posters out of this.
The relations between Kermit and I are perfectly fine, thank you. Kermit recieves respect from me, and I from him (unless there's something he hasn't told me).
Either way, you keep missing the point. It's repsect towards the victims, not towards each other on the board. We lost that a long time ago.
How is un-needed condemnation going to make the dead feel any better? Don't be absurd.
No-one has said anything even remotly disrespectful about the victims or their families. As I said before
When an IDF soldier gets up in the morning he doesn’t go out intent on killing Palestinians. He goes out to serve his/her country and defend it. Although there have been a miniscule number of cases where an IDF soldier has deliberately murdered an innocent Palestinian it is extremely rare. Now compare that to a Palestinian terrorist. Their sole aim is to murder Jews.
It is undisputable fact that the majority of Israeli losses in this conflict are non-combatants whilst the majority of Palestinian losses are combatants.
Not technically, Palestine doesn't have a standing army, that makes every loss a civilian. Nor does Israel go out of it's way to avoid collateral damage. Another major difference is that the Israeli army is directly representing it's country and the people, whereas the militant groups of Palestine are acting in direct opposition to the elected PLC.
No-one could say that the IRA is representing the people of the Rep. of Ireland, because it's not true. But the British army is representing the UK. It's the same for terrorists and armed forces everywhere.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that a terrorist should be viewed as a civilian?
By combatant I mean somebody who is armed; a fighter, opponent or terrorist. It is perfectly legitimate to categorise Hamas and other armed Palestinian militants as combatants.
It's a fact that they are not part of an armed force that represents the PLC or the people of Palestine.
The Israeli army kills hundreds of palestinians, it is not accurate to say that the majority were members of terrorist organisations. It is acting illegally, which is not to say that terrorists are legal, but that as a recognised state Israel need to follow the rules.
Yes, Israel is acting ‘illegally’ eyes of idealists in the EU and UN but none of these bodies understand what it’s like in Israel.
Terrorism is an extremely frequent occurrence in Israel, a day rarely passes without some kind of innocent. There seems to be a big suicide bomb in Israel more often than there is a tube strike in London. When you’ve got people our age being blown to pieces just out at night enjoying themselves, mothers brutally murdered out shopping and terrorist groups directly and deliberately targeting innocent people Israel needs to take a firm response.
It's acting illegally in the eyes of the world court. It doesn't matter what it's like. The UK didn't wall off the Rep. of Ireland because of the IRA, we tried to negotiate. Spain hasn't walled of the area where ETA are prevalent, because it's against the law. Israel isn't special, it's illegal.
A sensible response would be more welcome. I don't know anyone who respects force over intelligence.
Israel does negotiate with the Palestinians, however as you know negotiations usually bring very little success. The IRA terrorist threat experienced by Britain is totally different to Israel’s. The IRA would never have resorted to suicide bombs. The IRA are prepared to give some compromise. Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups will not compromise; their sole aim is to destroy the Jewish state and they will not be satisfied until there are no Jews left in Israel. The IRA also relied on public sympathy, notably from Americans; they would have lost all sympathy for a united Ireland if they conduced a campaign as brutal as that carried out by Palestinian militants. I am not in anyway suggesting the IRA’s actions were not bad but were they to blow up buses of schoolchildren and suicide bomb schools/universities we wouldn’t be where we are today with the NI peace process.
The are also fracture groups that will not negotiate, Real IRA and Continuity IRA spring to mind.
Israel doesn't negotiate from a reasonable position. A reasonable stance for negotiating peace would be without an illegal barrier and from the 1967 borders.
Omagh bombing in depth here
Palestinian terrorist groups have killed a lot more Israelis than the IRA have British citizens. Considering that Israel has a much smaller population than Britain proportionally Israel have suffered far greater losses through terrorism than us.
Recent attacks by IRA/related groups that come to mind are a small explosion on a weekday night in London injuring one or two people. Now, that’s a bit different to Palestinians blowing up two buses isn’t it? I’m not excusing the IRA’s actions at all, they are a terrorist group responsible for the murder of many Brits but I feel that the terrorism conducted by Palestinian groups is far more brutal than most things committed by the IRA.
The point is that Israel is in no position to realistically negotiate peace. Before there can be any realistic attempt for peace the barrier needs to come down, and it will have to, because it's illegal, the army needs to withdraw, because it's not defending home territory, and Israel needs to concentrate on defending themselves from bombers, not pacification of innocent palestinians, because that's only going to piss people off.