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So the Greeks can organise and run an event as complex as the Olympics impeccably...

Can we now stop the insulting bullshit argument that they would not be able to look after the Elgin Marbles properly, and return them to Greece once and for all? :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I must admit ignorance mate, not a big classic arty fan, what are you talking about?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The 'Elgin' Marbles are an ancient and extremely important set of artifacts that were nicked from Greece by the British in 1811, and have been kept in the Theft Museum (otherwise known as the British Museum) since.

    Despite all the arguments for and against the removal of the Marbles from its rightful place, its return has long been overdue. But incredibly there are is opposition from some quarters on the basis that the Greek cannot be trusted to look after them. :rolleyes:

    And then there is the odious 'My Country Right or Wrong' brigade who just says "Fuck Greece, we took them and they're ours now, and there's nothing they can do about it".

    More info
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They were purchased from Greece to prevent them being destroyed. Not "stolen", purchased.

    Therefore they belong to us. Not Greece. So Greece, in all fairness, can piss off.

    Maybe when they stop victimising plane spotters and start giving them fair trials I may feel differently, but I don't expect so.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    They were purchased from Greece to prevent them being destroyed. Not "stolen", purchased.

    Therefore they belong to us. Not Greece. So Greece, in all fairness, can piss off.

    Maybe when they stop victimising plane spotters and start giving them fair trials I may feel differently, but I don't expect so.

    *chuckles* I love the tone of your posts Kermit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    They were purchased from Greece to prevent them being destroyed. Not "stolen", purchased.
    Er.. more like pillaged by the British with the blessing of the Turk occupiers and certainly without permission or approval of its rightful owners, the Greeks.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/2441103.stm
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    *chuckles* I love the tone of your posts Kermit.
    #

    And what tone may that be?:p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    #

    And what tone may that be?:p


    the humourous one...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Er.. more like pillaged by the British with the blessing of the Turk occupiers and certainly without permission or approval of its rightful owners, the Greeks.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/2441103.stm

    To be fair, at the time the rightful owners were the turks, such is the case when you've conquered a country.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aww, poor Greeks. The big bad nasty Turks and British stolded their precious marbles.

    If they liked them that much they wouldn't have used it to store gunpowder.

    They're as bad as the Jocks and the Spanish for their bleating.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely you cannot seriously advocate keeping them just because?

    Anyone who has cared to have but the briefest of looks can only agree that their natural, rightful and only home can only be in Greece.

    They are as much at home in the Theft Museum as a fish in the desert.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Surely you cannot seriously advocate keeping them just because?

    Anyone who has cared to have but the briefest of looks can only agree that their natural, rightful and only home can only be in Greece.

    They are as much at home in the Theft Museum as a fish in the desert.


    Who says there is a rightful home for art. True art is at home anywhere. It makes itself at home by being so brilliant.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Surely you cannot seriously advocate keeping them just because?

    Anyone who has cared to have but the briefest of looks can only agree that their natural, rightful and only home can only be in Greece.

    They are as much at home in the Theft Museum as a fish in the desert.

    There is no natural, rightful and only home of anything.

    A fish has no place in a desert. The same cannot be said for historical artfacts in a museum. Your analogy is shite.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Incidentally the games were hardly impeccable, there was a cloud of drug scandal hanging over the whole thing, members of Greece's own team missed their drugs tests. That's not impeccable is it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they go back to Greece the smog will destroy them. That is an important consideration.

    The second consideration is where do you draw the line? Sure it's quite easy over something like the Elgin Marbles or the Stone of Scone, but everything always comes from somewhere.

    If the Greeks want them back that badly they should be putting in a hard cash offer. But they aren't.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    While the guys at the museum over there take excellent care of them, right? A number of years ago someone rubbed them with sandpaper I heard, because they were dirty, and a layer of marble was destroyed.
    As for the care they'd have here... Maybe you forgot that they're a part of things that are still here, and those things were fine the last time I looked at them?
    And if I steal your car and sell it to someone, that someone isn't the rightful owner of your car.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    And then there is the odious 'My Country Right or Wrong' brigade who just says "Fuck Greece, we took them and they're ours now, and there's nothing they can do about it".

    As with Gibraltar, I couldn't give a stuff about a few statues.

    Give one reason why they should be returned to Greece, apart from the fact that they belonged to Greece 205 years ago? Are you suggesting that any colony that has ever existed ever was illegal and that if anyone has ever benefitted from them they should return everything?

    Fair enough if they were stolen within the past one hundred years, but 1799?
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    Give one reason why they should be returned to Greece, apart from the fact that they belonged to Greece 205 years ago?
    Originally posted by Zalbor
    ...they're a part of things that are still here...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But they are part of Greece aren't they? Think of it this way: if we were occupied by America and they took big ben, say 200 years later when we are independant we'd still want big ben back I bet you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    greeks hate to hear them called the Elgin Marbels they are the Parthanon Marbels (spelling?)

    If we gave them back we'd set a precident and have to give back all the other stuff weve stolen from cultures around the workld.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by UpsetChap
    There is no natural, rightful and only home of anything.

    A fish has no place in a desert. The same cannot be said for historical artfacts in a museum. Your analogy is shite.
    You're right. Let's fucking nick the Sphinx and put it in Trafalgar Square. People will forget instantly that it is forever part of the Great Pyramids and I'm sure it'll look completely natural next to Nelson's Column.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and have been kept in the Theft Museum (otherwise known as the British Museum)

    To the Victor go the spoils...

    And calling the British museum the Theft Museum is hateful, xenophobic and shows a stunning lack of knowledge about British history, and a lack of pride for the country in which you live.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You of course take pride in the Imperialist history of the British Empire and all the problems it created which still have repercussions to the present day.

    Oh yes Mat, something to be proud of indeed. :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    As with Gibraltar, I couldn't give a stuff about a few statues.

    Give one reason why they should be returned to Greece, apart from the fact that they belonged to Greece 205 years ago?
    Good enough reason isn't it?

    - They belong to the Greek.

    - Their right place in the historical plane cultural is in the surroundings in which they had lived for time immemorial, not in the world's biggest bazaar.

    Give a good single reason why they should stay in Britain.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    You're right. Let's fucking nick the Sphinx and put it in Trafalgar Square. People will forget instantly that it is forever part of the Great Pyramids and I'm sure it'll look completely natural next to Nelson's Column.

    Should we give Cleopatra's Needle back to Egypt?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some attitudes here are no better than the pretentious American who bought (or thought he was buying) Tower Bridge.

    But what goes around comes around, and wouldn't it be lovely if one day some rich idiot does take Tower Bridge or the Tower of London stone by stone, whether the British like it or not, and re-set it in Texas. You live by the sword, you die by the sword right?

    And we dare to call people of other countries arrogant?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Should we give Cleopatra's Needle back to Egypt?
    I don't know. Wasn't it a present? Depends on the circumstances in which it was obtained naturally.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    To the Victor go the spoils...
    Which translates as "We have no moral high ground. If we defeat you militarily we reserve the right to behave like a bunch of deranged savages and do what the fuck we want to your country. Because we can. (But you cannot do it back to us though- we're the good guys after all).

    And calling the British museum the Theft Museum is hateful, xenophobic [/B][/QUOTE] Not nearly as hateful as xenophobic as your perception that the world's treasures are yours to take by force, and may all those bloody foreigners fuck themselves if they have a problem with it.
    and shows a stunning lack of knowledge about British history, and a lack of pride for the country in which you live.
    The "My country right or wrong" brigade strikes again...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: So the Greeks can organise and run an event as complex as the Olympics impeccably...
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Can we now stop the insulting bullshit argument that they would not be able to look after the Elgin Marbles properly, and return them to Greece once and for all? :rolleyes:


    it doesn't help though that a considerable number of their athletes were kicked out for failing to take the standard drugs test.
    How many was it, 5?

    I think the artifacts should remain here for now.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's an entire egyptian temple in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York because egypt were going to flood where it was originally. Sometimes things are better off being somewhere else, simply because of preservation.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Zalbor
    While the guys at the museum over there take excellent care of them, right? A number of years ago someone rubbed them with sandpaper I heard, because they were dirty, and a layer of marble was destroyed.

    Sand-blasting up until about two years ago was the standard method for cleaning stone, it ultimatly destroys it, the new method, using lazers is extremly expensive, and still isn't widespread, you can't expect them to have had it years ago can you?.
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