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Policing American style
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Tonight approx an hour ago I was going to the shop when I saw a police car, there were two police officers talking to one guy and just a few foot away from them was another guy.
So anyways the police after speaking to the first guy went over to the other one and they started talking to him, I heard them say '' empty your pockets'', he wouldnt and they said it again. They didnt say it in a threatening way and were quite polite about it, as I got closer the lad suddenly lost the plot and he made a dash for it. ( I had little un with me so I held back because I didnt want her to get banged into or nothing like that).
The police got hold of the guy and brought him to the ground and were struggling with him and they kept saying get your arms out (they were under his chest and he was on his front). They said this several times but he ignored them.
By this time I had crossed over the road but could still see everything that was going on. The lad just refused to do as they asked and the police were struggling with him.......he was not gonna co-operate.
So my question is :
Should our police be more like the American police ? They show authority, they shout actions they want the offender to do and they dont seem to take any crap. Its a case of they get asked once to do something and if they refuse then the police get heavy with them. (thats what happens in Cops anyhow).
What do you think ?
So anyways the police after speaking to the first guy went over to the other one and they started talking to him, I heard them say '' empty your pockets'', he wouldnt and they said it again. They didnt say it in a threatening way and were quite polite about it, as I got closer the lad suddenly lost the plot and he made a dash for it. ( I had little un with me so I held back because I didnt want her to get banged into or nothing like that).
The police got hold of the guy and brought him to the ground and were struggling with him and they kept saying get your arms out (they were under his chest and he was on his front). They said this several times but he ignored them.
By this time I had crossed over the road but could still see everything that was going on. The lad just refused to do as they asked and the police were struggling with him.......he was not gonna co-operate.
So my question is :
Should our police be more like the American police ? They show authority, they shout actions they want the offender to do and they dont seem to take any crap. Its a case of they get asked once to do something and if they refuse then the police get heavy with them. (thats what happens in Cops anyhow).
What do you think ?
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Comments
In a word, no. Fuck America and fuck the police
I have never found myself the victim of misconduct by US police but know a few people who have; cops in America can have an appalling attitude. I know they cannot take many chances, but still...
In any case, it's not like the Old Bill in here are angels. There have been endless testimonies of coppers in here giving a detainee a good fucking hiding 'just because'. No one was going to go rough on that lad on the street but chances are he was 'sorted out' once in the police station.
To me they were just 'too nice'
I dont mean the police should kick shit out of people, but ask them once to do something and if they dont do as they are told then really get firmer with them.
I thought that's what they all do anyway. Judging by those reality TV programs on the BBC and elsewhere, they don't have any problem to jump on someone, restrain and handcuff them by force...
What i think happened was that this guy had nicked something of the other guy....just by the way they were talking.
Sometime our police tend to come across as soft touches......well here they do anyway. I suppose on a Friday night at kicking out time they may be a bit firmer
I have more reasons than most for hating the police but I don't - in some ways the run-ins I've had with them have only upped my respect for them.
What point are you trying to make? That the entire police force is in need of reform of it's approach to policing because one little shit refused to do as they said and made a dash for it?
TBH They were right to ask nicely a couple of times before acting. Had they just bounded up to himn after his first refusal and forced him to the ground etc then you/me and others would complain about heavy handed policemen.
Even later on, after he saw we were all European tourists, he asked my friend to stop 'moving about' as he was standing near him.
The cop seemed either very nervous or very aggressive/untrustworthy throughout the incident. Perhaps things are much worse there than they are here, plus he was alone, so maybe he had genuine reasons to be so uptight. He didn't give us a fine and let us go with a verbal warning, so he wasn't a bad chap...
Firmer is one thing, but you do not want them to behave like american police. I suppose it depends on which american police as well. The ones in Washington who drive around with lights flashing 100% of the time for 'increased visibility' but don't appear to have a clue. NY police? Who are so over worked they'll either arrest you for looking at them funny, or tell you to piss off because someone got mugged. The police systems are different in the US, and they're not all the same.
Do you propose that all of our officers carry guns?
If id have meant that then im sure i would have stated that our police should all carry guns. Of course I didnt mean that, as I have already said I think they should show more authority in the way they speak to the offender. In America they would ask the offender to do something and if they refused then the police just show more authority.
when this lad was on the ground the police asked him to get his arms out several times, im saying they should ask maybe once/twice and if he refuses then stop being Mr Nice Copper and let the offender know they mean business.
Define 'business' though? it's a fine line and we can't start crossing it, some lads just have fuck all respect.
how many other little shits refuse to do as the police say ?
Im telling you what happened and Im telling you that I think on this occasion the police should have used a more forceful way to get the lad to do what they wanted. In my opinion they were just too nice .
I dont mean that the police should beat the crap out of everyone and I dont think all police should carry guns. If you have ever watched cops on telly you will see how the police in America start of nice, when they are getting nowhere they then raise their voice and the person then starts to respond.
Don't know, you got a source?
in the way I wrote buisiness it means that they will not take any shit of the lad and that the lad will do what they want him to.
and if they have no respect then its about time the police showed them that when they ask them to do something they will do it.
oh come on.
like i can get a source, we all know there are many little shits who will not do as the police request.
They don't? What do they use?
Clearly not, at least not enough to make a significant impression. You've got an isolated example, not an epidemic.
They have guns at parliament, airports and outside royal residences.
There are armed response units for when they're needed. But officers here just don't need guns. They've got nightsticks and mace.
Did I say there was an epidemic
please just debate what im talking about, the example I gave you earlier.
suddenly im saying theres a major epidemic and our police should carry guns wtf
You say that our police should be more forceful because there are many little shits out there being disrespectful. All you have is an isolated incident, not even a report on multiple incidents in a specific location. You don't have a case for the need for greater force in the police.
i quoted upset chap as he was the person who brought little shit into the debate. I went on to say how many little shits are there.
Again I said that on this occasion I thought the police should have been more forceful, i dont see every attempted arrest and ive never had dealings with the police personally.
you are trying very badly to put words into my mouth. So again read my initial post and start again will you.
You've still only got one incident. Where's the arguement for the need for greater force?
An incident that I witnessed that I thought should have been handled more firmly. I saw it happen, I cant comment on something I have not seen happen.
Fair enough, but hardly grounds for them to be more forceful on a national scale.
In what way ?
The example i gave you about last night, do you think the police should have asked several times before the lad did as they asked ? Even when he didnt do what they asked they didnt use too much force, they just struggled with him.
Fiend, i dont know what the policing is like where you live. A few months ago i posted a thread about how kids were damaging property in my street. It was reported to the police because a fellas van had a big stone thrown at it. When the police came out to the mans house he did not approach the kids who had done the damage, he spoke to the owner and then left. So theres another case for you to think about. I thought on that occasion the police were too soft, I think they should have had a word with the kids and basically said to them that he does not want to be called here again because of them damaging stuff.
So two seperate incidents within a couple of months where I think the polices attitude/authority was not used correctly. I dont know what it is like in other peoples areas so by having debates we can discuss as to wether this happens in other places. We can discuss wether people are in the same way of thinking as myself and basically see if we do think theres a problem with the way police handle stuff.
At least you've given additional examples. It's more to do with approach than ammount of force though. It often depends on the age of the kids, damage done and whether the victim wants to press charges. To be fair I can't see police wasting their time over a couple of rocks, they've got better things to do.
And to be fair to Madgal99 she gave ways in which the police are using too much force.
Personally I'd respect a greater presence on the street than brute force.
they may have been laid back cos they didn't want your small daughter seeing a vicous episode. more likely they knew who and what they were dealing with. they may well have trouble with this individual on a regular basis and know that the softly softly approach is the best way to deal with this guy ...they may know he is on medication ...they may well know he has missed his medication. there are too many factors that you don't know about.
those same two cops may well have been dealing in a very serious manner half an hour later with a different 'client'.
what would you prefer your little 'un to wittness in the streets?
sounds like they apprehended him even though he made a run for it ...they had him pinned to the floor ...he obviously wasn't a hardened crim who they had to hit with a stick or call back up for.
they should be commended for their calmness and proffesionalism.
after all it sounds like a bit of a non event compared with what the police often have to deal with.