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Police officers banned from joining the BNP

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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You sign up to be a member of a party, and generally thsi involves such things as paying a membership fee.

    I disagree entirely with the BNP, but the whole point of freedom of speech si to be free to say what you believe, not what anybody else thinks you should believe.

    If a police officer cannot operate without being racist then he will be dismissed, BNP membership or no BNP membership. Banning BNP members doesn't mean that racists will elave the police force- if anything, the hardcore racists will get worse as they will blame the "namby-pambies" for restricting their freedom of political movement.

    Like it or not, people have the right to believe what they want. If they are doing their job that is an entirely different matter, but joining a political party is nothing to do with an employer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you believe in employer's discretion when considering applicants or even current employees Kermit?

    Surely it's to the employer to decide whether certain situations might bring the company/institution into disrepute, and act to avoid that happening...

    Since the BNP's beliefs stand against many of the values held by law enforcement agencies such us the police, it's not that difficult to understand why the police will want to bar BNP members from employment.

    If we were talking about, say, an accountant or any kind of job where race sensitivity and personal opinions were irrelevant, I’d be the first one to complain. But in that kind of job, I think the reasons are understandable, just as the reasons for banning a child sex offender from getting a job in a kindergarten would also be understandable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To compare a bone fide member of a bone fide political party with a convicted paedophile misses the point, the most crucial point being the conviction.

    Now eitehr you can argue for complete employer discretion- and that includes not employing women, the disabled or those from ethnic minorities- or you can argue for protection of the rights of freedom of speech and freedom of political movement.

    Being a member of the BNP does not, per se, damage a person's ability to do a job neutrally, any more than being a member of the Communist Party would prevent an officer from protecting the staff and property of McDonald's should his job warrant it.

    If the officer is behaving in a racist fashion it should be quite easy to find a way of dismissing him without resorting to BNP membership. If he isn't behaving in a racist manner then his political idelology is an irrelevance.

    As I've said, if the BNP is "against the role fo the police", should all anti-capitalist police officers be dismissed too? After all, they can't be trusted to do their job properly either, surely?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Officers shouldn't become paid up members of ANY party. As for the racism aspect, banning membership won't make other officers admit to being racist, all they'll do is hide.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would like to congratulate all of those supporting this move for falling into a PR trap. This suggested action means nothing, it won't stop police officer from being racist, it won't stop them from supporting the BNP and it certainly doesn't stop them for voting for the BNP.

    I think most of what I would have to say has already been covered. Basic rights being one. Either you allow membership or all, or you ban all. The Police Forces should not be making a political decision like this and just as I wouldn't support the banning of members of the communist party, I don't support this.

    In fact, I cannot see any benefit from doing this.

    Political opinion and support is an entirely private matter - unless the person uses their employment to promte their political views. And that accusation can just as easily be applied to liberals as it can racists.

    You know, I am actually disgusted at some of the views expressed here and sadly not surprised. Kermit is absolutely right when he says how shameful it is for those people who espouse the rights of individuals and yet seem to be happy to give up other people's rights purely because they do not support their motives. Rights apply to all good or bad. That is the point. That is what makes us a "democracy" and they are fundamental to our way of life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But they have a right to belong to the BNP.

    Just don't try to get a job which involves dealing with people of all races and treating them with fairness and justice, if you are self-confessed racist scumbag who want to be a member of a party that thinks non-whites are inferior and should be kicked out!

    The choice is theirs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    But they have a right to belong to the BNP.

    You have the right to vote Labour.

    Just don't expect anyone to employ you. Ever.

    How does that sound?

    Isn't that what the Union's complaint about Blacklisting was?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The BNP are outside the normal political spectrum though. They are on a different league from the democratic parties, be UKIP, Tory, Labour or Communist.

    This is not about being better or worse suited for the job. This is about being incompatible with the job. And racists, race supremacists and the likes are clearly incompatible with holding a position in which they have to deal with people of all races in fairness and justice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    The BNP are outside the normal political spectrum though. They are on a different league from the democratic parties, be UKIP, Tory, Labour or Communist.

    Sorry bu they are part of the political spectrum, perfectly legal. They are just a distasteful aspect of it.

    But then some right-wingers would say the same about communists.
    This is not about being better or worse suited for the job. This is about being incompatible with the job. And racists, race supremacists and the likes are clearly incompatible with holding a position in which they have to deal with people of all races in fairness and justice.

    See Kermit's comment about policing of political rallys.

    What any other public sector worker? What about anyone is any sector, surely the fairness aspect applies to all, or whould it be acceptable for a private business to charge blacks more because the owner is a member of the BNP?

    The problem here is partly the precedence it sets about an employer's right to discriminate on the basis of political beliefs. Surely you can see the potential implications of that?

    It also questions people's integrity and professionalism. I could argue that non Tory supporter should work in the NHS. No "No War" supporter should work in the defence industry, ever.

    No union member should work in any industry, if that union has a policy for allowing strikes.

    What you have to accept is that if you go down this route then you give employers the right to disciminate against any political beliefs if they can argue that it is incompatible with the companies philsophy/business.

    But as I said right at the start, what thise suggestion does is just prevent membership of a party. It doesn't stop any policeman being racist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Law enforcement (specially the police) is not your average employer. There are obvious, very serious responsibilities and legal implications regarding the law enforcement.

    Believe it or not I'd be the first one to protest if a BNP supporter was banned from joining most employments: retail, services, finances... so far as the person does not break the law or the code of conduct I don’t have a problem with it.

    The Police force- and the education system, since we had a similar discussion a while ago- do not apply IMO. They are special cases with massive conflict of interest and massive room for abuse of power. That is why someone who is a BNP member- by definition a racist, and yes, a trillion times worse and more serious than any other political party, Commie and all- should not be allowed near such sensitive positions as a police officer or a primary school teacher..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can understand why you might like this proposal, I just think you are being fooled.

    Just because PC99 cannot be a member of the BNP doesn't mean that he cannot vote for them, attend their meetings r support their goals.

    Banning membership only gives them fuel for thier cause. It's counterproductive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I understand that banning members of the BNP is not going to root out any racism within the police, in the cases where there is some.

    Perhaps the move is done with public perception in mind? The police is always fighting a battle trying to win the trust of ethnic minorities; perhaps they thought having members of the BNP within their ranks would be a bad move for community relations.

    Though I admit it is simply a cosmetic measure.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IT is a cynical p[olitical move. It is nothing else.

    Like it or not, the BNP are a bone fide political party. They have 4 councillors in Bradford to prove this. They ARE distasteful, but I don't think they are any more distasteful than the Communists, to be quite honest.

    If you cannot acknowledge the precedent then I am very worried. Today they come for your enemy, tomorrow they come for you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They'll have more than one account. as for Barclay's move, I believe however much they might want to protect their image, it's still totally illegal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    I think it stinks.

    As much as I dislike them, the BNP are a legitimate politcal party. (lets not bother throwing about terms like racist, because they are technically a party)

    So, therefore to ban police from joining a legitimate party is VERY suspect.

    I'm forced to agree. It's got to be all or nothing. Members of the police force shouldn't be allowed to be card-carrying members of any political organistation. Religion excepted. On the basis that all politics apart from religion can conflict with the current government.

    Or there should be no rules at all on the political affiliations that police officers have.

    I conceed that whether they're members or not they will hold certain views, but activly endorsing an organisation is a step too far.

    Did anyone see that program on BBC2 about the manchester/north wales police and institutional racism? If I remember rightly, many of those guys were supporters of the BNP though...
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