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The beginning of the end for the atrocity that is Guantanamo?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3848279.stm

Let's not forget that after more than two years the US administration has only managed to charge fewer than 20 prisoners with anything. The other 600+ remain illegally imprisoned and subject to inhuman conditions and torture.

At least now the prisoners can have the possibility of challenging their disgraceful imprisonment in court. I hope they sue for damages. Dealing with US courts as they will be- the land of the multi-million dollar lawsuit- I sincerely hope every last one wrongfully imprisoned man sues the US government for tens of millions of dollars. I hope those freedom-hating, anti-democratic, sinister scumbags sitting in government in the US are landed the biggest lawsuit in history and are made to pay for this disgusting abomination.

The US government shouldn't be allowed to call itself a democracy or to use the words 'justice' and 'freedom' for as long as the revolting nazi-style prison camp exists.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yay ^^
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A partial victory for justice and the rule of law, but read further down. We still have a considerable ways to go to put an end to this entire practice of indiscriminate detainment and abuse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This administration has been dismissing International Law since it first disregarded the SC's denial of military intervention in Iraq. It has repeatedly claimed that international treaties and conventions do not apply to America any longer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    The British ones that are their, their stories don't seem to add up. How come one is in Pakistan for a computer course but ends in in Afganistan near where the war is? Strange.

    So? Why should he have to explain his movements? Its no one's business. The US should either charge them or release them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    It looks suspicious to me and should be investigated.

    Looks suspicious to you? Hey, we can all sleep safe in our beds tonight, lukesh from Stoke is on the case! :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually, yes they are, Luke.

    Many of the people in Guantanamo were only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and were rounded up by US soldiers. These people do not belong to the Taliban or Al Qaida or any other fighting group, yet were surrounded and put into the first plane out, no questions asked.

    As for those who were involved in the fighting, many of them belonged to the Taliban not Al Qaida, and regardless of what the US might claim to the contrary fighting a foreign invader is not a crime. So they should not be there.

    Which leave us with alleged Al Qaida fighters. There might be a case against these people, but if that is the case they should have been taken to US soil, given their basic human rights and treated humanely. The US has just about broken every law and accord there is regarding human rights, access to lawyers, mistreatment, torture, illegal imprisonment, the right to a fair trial, etc.

    Let's not forget that you could expect a fairer trial from the Taliban themselves or from a little banana republic than the prisoners of Guantanamo are 'entitled' to. Limited or no access to lawyer, military tribunals, judges and representatives appointed by the US government... the whole thing is a sad travesty of justice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It has repeatedly claimed that international treaties and conventions do not apply to America any longer.

    Treaties signed long ago in a different world. We need new treaties, we need new methods of fighting terrorism that arent bound by ancient treaties signed during the cold war.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Human rights have no expiration date Matadore.

    How very surprising :rolleyes: to see you justifying a filthy illegal torture camp such as Guantanamo.

    I suppose you don't see anything wrong either with the appalling abuses at Abu Ghraib prison do you?

    LOL. I still remember you claiming about a year ago (and in BLOCK CAPITALS, such was your indignation) that US soldiers "don't torture people".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who was that "expert"?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe you. But that expert was talking bollocks. That was just the opinion of one man- there is no 'expertise' about human rights- there is consensus amongst civilised nations about what is or isn't permissible.

    Torture is absolutely unacceptable regardless of the person's crimes.

    And let's not forget the convenient demonisation of the term "terrorist". A terrorist is not particularly worse than a paramilitary gang member or a soldier who commits war crimes or targets civilians.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends. Some terrorist groups have caused the deaths of a few dozen people in their history or less. Some have caused the deaths of many more.

    Pretty much the same story as governments and armed forces to be found everywhere. A murder is every bit as unacceptable whether the perpetrator is wearing an army uniform or a headscarf.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    Grow up!

    Put it this way, them who are in Cuba are not there because America decided to pick up some people.


    Errrr...yes they are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    Treaties signed long ago in a different world. We need new treaties, we need new methods of fighting terrorism that arent bound by ancient treaties signed during the cold war.

    So basic human rights should be abandoned?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    Ok, but them from Britian, I have read their backgrounds, I mean, why they were in that region and it doesn't add up to me.

    Its no one elses business what they were doing there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    Agree.

    I know you guys won't believe me but watching the news the other day an terroism expert said that the United States had done nothing wrong in the touurture side of it.

    Who was that? On what programme? What day?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Silent Witness? Mastermind?
    They're whats on tonight at 9pm. :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lukesh, you can't expect anyone to take your assertions seriously if you continue to evade direct requests to provide verfiable substantiation of your source of info.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cleverer than you obviously. :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Where is your outrage, concerning the other side?
    Apparently when the helicopter he was being transported in began taking fire and had to make a radical tactical maneuver to avoid being shot down, 32 year old Navy Seal, Petty Officer First Class Neil Roberts fell out. Nobody is exactly sure how. When something like that happens there is a lot of movement, a lot of wind, and a hell of a lot of gravity. When they got closer to the base and did a head count they were one member shy. That incident happened in Afghanistan, a long way from the island of Cuba. On the island of Cuba a couple of hundred captured Al Qaeda prisoners sit in cells waiting for their lunch. A good Muslim lunch designed to incorporate their traditional foods and to be respectful of Islam's dietary guidelines. Just like their breakfasts and their suppers. They eat really good there in Cuba. Most of them have put on some much needed weight. The weight they lost while fighting against the soldiers who liberated Afghanistan. Most of them have been through the camp infirmary. It is a fully functioning Army field medical hospital where they receive the exact same medical care offered members of the American military. More treatment, in fact, because in addition to treating any injuries sustained during their capture, American specialists have also treated orthopedic and cosmetic injuries sustained in battle many months - and even years ago. All of the Al Qaeda detainees at
    Guantanamo Bay have received the best of American medical and dental care - for free - being given procedures and treatment simply unavailable in their native lands. Also, they have been provided a Muslim chaplain flown in especially for them, they have been given copies of the Koran, and there is a big sign at the camp that points them in the direction to pray toward Mecca. The five-times-a-day Islamic call to prayer is played on the camp loudspeaker. That is what is happening in Cuba right now. Yet activists and officials from around the world have publicly condemned American treatment of the Al Qaeda men captured in combat. Muslim governments, our European allies, American leftist groups and Amnesty International have all bitterly accused the United States of being "inhumane." Some of them have claimed there should
    be a United Nations condemnation, many have called for international inspectors to go in. The call has been loud, almost deafening, as the world has condemned and cursed the way the Al Qaeda fighters have been treated in captivity by Americans. That is in Cuba. Which is a long way from Afghanistan. In Afghanistan one of those "Prowler" unmanned surveillance planes saw Petty Officer Roberts as he fell from the helicopter and then lie there on the ground, injured from his fall, alive and conscious. The Colonels and the Generals all saw this as it played out on their TV monitors back at headquarters. They also saw the three Al Qaeda terrorist soldiers come out of the bush and grab him. He was now their prisoner. He was Captured in battle. They grabbed him, and then they dragged him away. Then they beat him severely, unmercifully. ... And then they murdered him. They shot him to death. A wounded man. A detainee. No medical care, no food, no holy book, no chaplain. Just a bullet. This incident has produced nothing but SILENCE on the part of all the world's activists. Not a single word. Where are they all Apparently it is okay to shoot a wounded prisoner, but, if you take him to a hospital, treat his injuries, feed him, and provide him health and comfort over and above anything he has ever known in his pathetic life, then, ... you have gone too far! You have gone over the line! Apparently the act of killing an American detainee is acceptable while coddling an Al Qaeda detainee is not. The exact same people who have seen some kind of war crime committed with regard to our treatment of the POW terrorists in Cuba are totally unperturbed by the slaughter of an American prisoner of war in Afghanistan! We treat them with care and compassion and we get cursed. They treat us with barbarism, butchery, even murder, and they get blessed. Critics of the American detention of Al Qaeda terrorists in Cuba are
    not even concerned about those terrorists. They also don't give a damn about human rights. The only thing they want to do is to attack America in any way they can. The great many people who hate the American people and our culture have rallied to the defense of the detainees in Cuba. And not a word of criticism for the bastards who executed Neil Roberts in cold blood in Afghanistan. This war is all about good versus evil, no matter what else you may hear. The forces of light are tackling the forces of darkness. Civilization is at war with savagery. Our Navy Seal gave his life for that cause. Fortunately for them the Al Qaeda detainees in Cuba were captured by civilized men - as opposed to the evil murdering beasts who captured Neil Roberts.


    Clinton Wisebaker
    Lance Corporal
    United States Marine Corps

    The hypocrisy of the Hate America First Club knows no limits, does it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LOL. It is indeed rich for you to utter the word hypocrisy Thanatos!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Never ceases to amaze me how ideologically driven thanatos is. Denial after denial of any wrongdoing by his pet admin regardless of how the body of documented evidence increases.

    Is that sand behind your ears thanny? :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You still seem oblivious to the basic requisites of legitimate debate Lukesh. You cannot merely say, "oh i saw some expert somewhere on some tv programme who said such and such" without any verifiable citation to his actual statements that can be checked and responded to and still expect anyone to take you for more than a rabid little ideologue (such as our resident troll Thanatos) who cannot provide substantive support for his assertions.

    Either back up statements of fact with hard evidence or kindly have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that you do not truly have factual support for your beliefs but choose to hold them anyways.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you at least give us the name of the programme and the date it aired then perhaps one might be able to find a transcript online or some reference to the actual comments. One cannot debate claims or seek to ascertain their factual validity if one does not have any reference. Simple as.

    Oh and "taking one's word for it" is precisely the sort of intellectual dishonesty which has so many people believing and vociferously arguing across the internet in defense of demonstrable misinformation. That is how urban myths gain such a broad base of regurgitators who make no attempt to confirm what they hear or read before spreading it further to other gullible types.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem Lukesh is that you dont debate. You simply make proclamations of belief and by your own words simply expect people to "take your word for it".

    Im sorry if noone has ever taught you the basic principles of legitimate debate, but you would be well advised to learn them and practice them, as well as having the intellectual honesty to deal with counter evidence and perchance amend false assumptions which may be inevitably proven incorrect if debate is what you are truly after.

    If you simply wish to cling your opinion regardless of evidence to the contrary (like some previously mentioned), then a debate forum is obviously not what you you seek.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And you are welcome to debate. But do please learn what debate consists of and youll find more people willing to engage you on the issues themselves.

    Now, before Jim scolds us again, back to the topic under discussion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    Treaties signed long ago in a different world. We need new treaties, we need new methods of fighting terrorism that arent bound by ancient treaties signed during the cold war.

    Maybe so, maybe we do need new treaties.

    Until that happens though, the existing ones are in force and should be enforced.
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