Restrictions that should be attached to the main "Freedoms" in this country.

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber
Fuck racism!

I ain't no racist, but there's too much of a brew-ha-ha surrounding 'racism' these days. I say people have a right to be racist!

Would it be a crazy guess to suggest that you are not part of an ethnic minority and thus have never been subjected to rascist abuse?

You are not rascist so I assume you would not want to live in a rascist soiety? Have rascist institutions? rascist culture etc?

If so then what exactly is the problem with telling people that they are wrong to be raqscist and discouraging it at every turn?

Society a century ago was probably more rascist than now, we have not become a more tolerant society by sitting back saying "its all subjective really isn't it?" and letting the rascists get away with it.

Sooceity advances by taking action to show what is disapproived of and what isn't.

i can't beleive anyone could think this was a bad thing........

Former Member

To me the only rational basis of a right to be racist is the right to form opinions.

That's why I believe in a right to be racist!

Former Member

I don't think anyone is debating that, but I think the issue is acting on those opinions. You know burning people etc etc. That's why laws were invented against that, because people were being discriminated, and

respecting rights to person and property.

was not being upheld. It's not ok per se to have racist opinions, by all means have them, but laws prevent anyone acting on those racist opinions.

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber
To me the only rational basis of a right to be racist is the right to form opinions.

That's why I believe in a right to be racist!

But why do you want people to be forming racist opinions? Why not say "enough is enough2 we aren't going to stand for it because we don't beleive in it?

If you don't believe in deliberately trying to change things for the better then you don't bel;ieve in much really.........

Former Member

How can you ever control how people think??

It's certainly not possible now! Besides in a free society, who is to say what a person can or cannot think? If you can eliminate extreme opinions, why not benign ones?

Thoughts are not WHOLLY linked to action!

Former Member

You can't control how people think, but what you can control is how much they can act on those opinions. And benign opinions don't normally lead to people getting strung up on trees, burned to death, victimised or murdered, as in the case of racism.

Former Member

I didn't say anything about control, more about influence.

Everyone has opinions, sometimes they change them. Sometimes there opinions are wrong, not in the moral sense but in the strict scientific sense.

Fuck it with moral relativity. If you have a racist belief then you are scientifically wrong.

If people are wrong then why not tell them, if you had a child and they developed rasist views would you not tell them they were wrong, try to influence there opinion?

Former Member

i also don't think it matters if some isn't acting or has never axcted on their views.

If you believed that holding a benign view was ok, you don't know that the personb would not axct on it in the future......

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber
And those people aren't normal since pain is a natural respsonse. A non sequitur.

Define "natural". Define "pain".
All feelings (physical, emotional or psychological) are subjective.

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber
Sorry but pain is the normal response to injury, just as heartbeats are normal.

It's got nothing to do with anything subjective.

Errrr...yes it has.

People have different pain thresholds.

Former Member

They're only subjective in how we feel them.

I can stab ten people in the stomach and they'd all feel physical pain; it's just their TOLERANCE to the pain would differ.

The fact is DEFINITIVE things can cause physical injury. Many things can cause emotional/psychological pain.

You can't control how people think, but what you can control is how much they can act on those opinions. And benign opinions don't normally lead to people getting strung up on trees, burned to death, victimised or murdered, as in the case of racism.

But if you control, why stop with extreme views??

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber
They're only subjective in how we feel them.

I can stab ten people in the stomach and they'd all feel physical pain; it's just their TOLERANCE to the pain would differ.

The fact is DEFINITIVE things can cause physical injury. Many things can cause emotional/psychological pain.



But if you control, why stop with extreme views??

You really don't understand people do you?

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber
But if you control, why stop with extreme views??

What do you mean? I don't understand the question? And you seem to be very wooly in your argument btw. So, being stabbed is definitive, where as calling someone a black ****** **** isn't?

Former Member

No it doesn't.

What CAUSES physical pain is objective. What causes emotional pain is subjective.

Former Member

No, what causes physical pain can also be subjective.

Former Member

No it isn't. Pain is pain, irrespective of one's pain threshold.

If people are wrong then why not tell them, if you had a child and they developed rasist views would you not tell them they were wrong, try to influence there opinion?

No!! They can think what they like!!!!!

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
No, what causes physical pain can also be subjective.

:yes:

Like for example injections. They cause pain... but would you stop giving those to people? Tattoos and body modification too... and BDSM.

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber
No it isn't. Pain is pain, irrespective of one's pain threshold.

Yes it fucking is. Something that hurts one person might not hurt another person. Its all subjective.

Former Member

Originally posted by the sole liber


No!! They can think what they like!!!!!

Well why are you on here arguing your point? Why bother at all?
What you are doing is trying to show us that you are right, to influence our opinions.

Why not give up and 'let us think what we like'?

The fact that you are interested in discussion and debate shows that you wish your view to be heard and that you want people to be convinced by your arguments.........

Former Member

What Toadborg said. And anyway Sole Liber, you say pain is pain, why are you splitting it up into emotional vs physical. All pain is subjective then, by your own argument.

Former Member

Originally posted by Toadborg
Would it be a crazy guess to suggest that you are not part of an ethnic minority and thus have never been subjected to rascist abuse?

You are not rascist so I assume you would not want to live in a rascist soiety? Have rascist institutions? rascist culture etc?

If so then what exactly is the problem with telling people that they are wrong to be raqscist and discouraging it at every turn?

Society a century ago was probably more rascist than now, we have not become a more tolerant society by sitting back saying "its all subjective really isn't it?" and letting the rascists get away with it.

Sooceity advances by taking action to show what is disapproived of and what isn't.

i can't beleive anyone could think this was a bad thing........

im sure everyone has had some form of racist abuse at them whether they're black white or pink with yellow spots!

people do have right to free thought, the only problem is people do act upon their thought consciously or subconsciously ie discrimination occurs then

its a fine line between stopping biggoted scum and blocking basic rights of the individual

people naturally catogorise things whether its completly true or not, so all groups have views of other groups ie men/women, stright/gay, races, music etc etc its our way of dealing wih the world and not straining our brains FACT
what we should do is educate not subjigate!!!

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
Yes you have the right to think what you like. No one has ever said otherwise. Same as I have the right to call you an immature fool.

Holy truth! But what the difference between thinking silently and thinking aloud?

Originally posted by Aladdin
Oh yes it is. It already exists and it works perfectly well.

I’m glad. No kidding, seriously.

Originally posted by Toadborg
Would it be a crazy guess to suggest that you are not part of an ethnic minority and thus have never been subjected to rascist abuse? […blah-blah-blah everything below…]

A mean trick. In any sport players like you are kicked out of the field.
]

Originally posted by Blagsta
No, what causes physical pain can also be subjective.

You don’t understand the difference. Physical harm can be measured while emotional harm can’t. This means subjective.
If your arm is broken it is objective whether you are crying or laughing.
If you are named ‘not kewl’ you are free to commit suicide of course…my congratulations but not my fault.
‘Sticks and stones can break my bones…’ well, this proverb is out of date.
What can I say?
One thing only.
Generation of sissies.

Former Member

No, YOU don't understand the difference. Its all subjective. If I break my arm and you break your arm, we both might be in pain, but we both have different experiences of that pain. There is no quantitave way to objectively measure if my arm hurts more or less than yours.

See?

Former Member

Originally posted by LabRat
Sticks and stones can break my bones…’ well, this proverb is out of date.
What can I say?
One thing only.
Generation of sissies.

Psychological hurt can stay with people all their lives. Or don't you think that emotional abuse or neglect of children is any big deal?

Former Member

Originally posted by LabRat

A mean trick. In any sport players like you are kicked out of the field.

Only offering some context.

Just suggestion that those who offer such arguments about 'free speech' etc. Are unlikely to be the ones who are actually taking the abuse are they?

Former Member

Could this really be the same Labrat who on another thread was complaining about the sole liber being called an idiot?

Apparently insults could hurt then.

:rolleyes: