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How to finish with organized crime...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Originally posted by the sole liber
Why not legalise drugs? Then you end the 'drugs war' and take out most 'organised crime'!

Sole Liber said this on this thread. Not to go too much of topic I made this new one. I think s/he is right.

Many progerssive organisations defend the legalization of drugs for many reasons one being the big damage it would do to organized crime. I was in one that defended similar policies, but only the so-called soft drugs because it is pretty obvious that European countries aren't ready to accept that it's their own individual behaviour they must control, and taking incest, drugs and so on off the "illegal list" wont turn us all into barbarians.

But there is another way to combat crime in the narcotics division. Legalizing the drugs in the "selling" countries, not only in the "buying" ones. In Colombia there is a new Party called El Polo Democrático. They want to legalize cocaine and turn it into a nationalized (spelling?) industry, belonging to all Colombians. And investing that agricultural money on making schools, hospitals...

It's president, Lucho Garzón run for President of the Republic and came third (pretty good for a new party). About four months ago he run for mayor (spelling?) of the capital Santa Fe de Bogotá and won.

What do you about it?

A big % of Colombians voted for a party that openly said they want to legalize, produce and export cocaine...

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There will always be organised crime, it will not go away.

    As long as we have contraband then there will be people to supply it, be that stolen mobile phones, smuggled tobacco, boose or drugs.

    The drugs market is a huge money maker, one of, if not the biggest.

    Over about ten years I would like to see a gradual relaxation of the laws, and massive program of harm reduction and education and treatment. That way demand could be lowered.

    Illegal immigration is another HUGE money maker, if we sorted out our immigration system and actually had an intelligent debate about it for once that would help.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Considering the immense profits cocaine generates, if the dividends were to benefit the country as a whole and the population (and that's a big if, I know), then it would be a great move in many levels. It would improve the quality of life for its citizens and remove much of the murderous mafia element exploiting everyone.

    And it could even lower prices a bit at this end, for which I would be very grateful.
    ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I certainly hope your not admiting anything there Aladdin.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    And it could even lower prices a bit at this end, for which I would be very grateful.
    ;)

    I'm not so sure. Look at how heavily taxed cigarretes are; surely it would be worse for (currently) illegal substances?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Probably would. But at least the country would get a massive extra amount in revenue that could be put to good use.

    Considering the amounts involved I can't believe Gordon Brown hasn't made Mr Tony legalise cannabis at least so it can be sold (and taxed) by the government.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the idea of a country legally producing and exporting cocaine is very dangerous. The government would be even more corrupt, getting rid of competitors in the drug market and extorting those it could control. Think about it, the armed forces would be enforcing the drug market, could get very violent.

    Countrys such as Columbia and Boliva declaring war on each other anyone?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by godscop
    I think the idea of a country legally producing and exporting cocaine is very dangerous. The government would be even more corrupt, getting rid of competitors in the drug market and extorting those it could control. Think about it, the armed forces would be enforcing the drug market, could get very violent.

    Countrys such as Columbia and Boliva declaring war on each other anyone?
    Is that what happens with the alcohol and tobacco markets? The idea is to make it pretty much the same.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Me_and
    Is that what happens with the alcohol and tobacco markets? The idea is to make it pretty much the same.

    States don't control them markets, anymore anyway. Mostly large corperations.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bongbudda I was just talking about the drugs side of it, it was a misleading Subject title...

    Godscop for what I now right now there are American troops in Bolivia. I'm sure some of them might be from Columbia. ;)

    When a country produces and exports alcohol or tobacco it does not create corruption or wars. "Tabacalera Española" has been privitized but over 50% of the shares belong to the Spanish government... and we haven´t attacked Morroco for having a better product. And France still hasn't invaded Spain for having some the best red wines in the world (ehem).

    And if the British government legalized it it could have price and health controls.

    The only dangerous thing would be the USA noy keeping its filthy hands out of Colombia just because it has somthing they want... Wait a minute, there are already US troops in Colombia. :rolleyes: I forgot!

    Edited to say: I forgot to say that the ones that control the cocaine ARE large corporations and look what is happening. Maybe we should start nationalizing Alcohol and Tobacco again. And medicines just incase.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let's not forget the the CIA have been involved in cocaine smuggling in the past.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The US government involves itself in things nothing to do with it. Thats new isn't it?

    I didn't say that tobacco or alcohol did create corruption and wars if a state produced it. Cocaine certainly would. The producing countrys are very unlikely to use the extra revenue for anything other than lining themselves and their friends pockets.

    It would only stop organised crime as producing and trafficking would no longer be defined as organised crime.

    Lets legalise burglary, it would give the burglars a chance to feel a part of society. We could also tax it, generating more revenue. At the same time crime rates would drop.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ^
    Missing the point, but never mind. I can't be arsed.
    There have been plenty of threads on here about legalising drugs, I can't be arsed going through all the arguments again. Use the search function if you're interested.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    gods cop ...leave it alone ...you don't understand.
    having been very involved with the drugs trade i am all for legalizing it...now. right now.
    the benefits outwiegh massively the down sides. organised crime would loose 90% of the trade ...it is also the biggest financial tax free multi currency earner for ALL terrorist organisations and that can't be good.
    canada have legalised the smoking possesing and cultivation of it. cannabis is now canadas biggest earner ...it beats steel forestry ...fishing ..etc. guess what ...not a drug cartel in sight. it's down to ordinary families and established farmers.
    illegal is insane and immoral.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are right Godscop! I hadn't seen it that way...

    Tobacco and alcohol don't create corruption.

    Cocaine does.

    Tobacco and alcohol money would be used on schools, roads and hospitals.

    Cocaine money would be used to make the government richer, finance death squads and other military expenses.

    That is common sense. I don't even have to ask for REASONS to back those opinions.

    And the burglary. Nah...

    Blagsta, the topic isn't if we should legalize drugs. The topic is the question, not the answers.

    I'll ask it another way:

    How do you think it will affect the current status that in Colombia the fastest growing political party is the one that said it would nationalize, produce and export cocaine, that the second most important chair of the country is occupied by the leader of that party and that most likely they will win the next presidential elections?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Organised crime has always found an opportunity to bootleg something. Drugs may be their biggest earner but it can be replaced.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by xicoperez
    Blagsta, the topic isn't if we should legalize drugs. The topic is the question, not the answers.

    :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasn't talking about whether it should be legalised or not, however.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh never mind... :no:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by godscop
    The US government involves itself in things nothing to do with it. .
    it's now accepted that the cia invented crack and imported it into poor black areas so they could illegaly raise money for their terrorist activities in south america ...anyone remember ronald reagan and oliver north?
    it is generaly accepted that the cia and mi5 introduced cannabis and lsd into western universities as an experiment in the control and subduing of the population.
    we didn't all wake up one morning deciding to use this stuff ...it was introduced by our governments.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    it's now accepted that the cia invented crack and imported it into poor black areas so they could illegaly raise money for their terrorist activities in south america ...anyone remember ronald reagan and oliver north?
    it is generaly accepted that the cia and mi5 introduced cannabis and lsd into western universities as an experiment in the control and subduing of the population.
    we didn't all wake up one morning deciding to use this stuff ...it was introduced by our governments.

    An interesting read on the subject. For more just do a google search on "freeway rick"

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/extra/crack/
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    when the government and fascist death groups are selling drugs the FARC has to too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The FARC doesn´t sell drugs, they protect the coca-fields from the army and the rival cartels of the one that has contracted them... Does that make sense? They are just Security...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by godscop

    Countrys such as Columbia and Boliva declaring war on each other anyone?
    Do Ireland and Denmark declare war on each other to control beer market? Do you think Columbians are sillier?
    Originally posted by xicoperez

    Tobacco and alcohol don't create corruption.

    Cocaine does.

    Tobacco and alcohol money would be used on schools, roads and hospitals.

    Cocaine money would be used to make the government richer, finance death squads and other military expenses.

    People produce and sell ice-cream. They pay taxes. Govt uses the money to bomb other countries and feed pocket dictators. So ice-cream should be banned because it creates wars and corruption.
    Originally posted by Braineater
    Organised crime has always found an opportunity to bootleg something. Drugs may be their biggest earner but it can be replaced.
    Exactly true. But govt bans something first, mafia comes afterwards.
    Actually so called organised crime is just common business. Real crimes like burglary or shoplifting are not organised. Governments ban this or that destroying legal supply but they can’t make demand disappear so the businesses go underground. This washes away honest people and attracts criminals that of course doesn‘t improve anything. Govt in its turn toughens bans making things even worse. The escalation is going on and on until we got street gangs’ wars and overcrowded prisons.

    The core problem is paternalistic style of thought. If authorities are wise adults and citizens are mentally under-developed children, dangerous toys should be removed. But people (mostly) are not kids and they always find ways to reach their goals. Governments don‘t. Governments always lose ’war on drugs’, ’war on crime’, ’war on pornography’ etc. But consequences of these wars are disastrous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LabRat
    People produce and sell ice-cream. They pay taxes. Govt uses the money to bomb other countries and feed pocket dictators. So ice-cream should be banned because it creates wars and corruption.

    Emm... Dear Lab Rat. "Irony"...
    Originally posted by LabRat
    Do you think Columbians are sillier?

    What is wrong with everyone?! It's the fifth time I have to point this out!

    Colombians! Colombians! Not Columbians! C-O-L-O-M-B-I-A-N-S.

    c-o-l-O-m-b-i-a-n-s
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