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Its what your post reads like.
Well personally I'm offended by your opinions. Its the height of arrogance to impose your beliefs on others, which is what missions are about, whatever you say. Those people have their own Gods and own religions, its arrogant beyond belief to assume that they're wrong and you know better. It pisses me off no end.
Apocrypha, if you mean my comment about Lucifer.
Send me a postcard babe! I believe in a circular afterlife, not linear
You can't generalise to every religious/spiritual person... I know plenty of people, myself included who don't impose their views on others.
But as for missions, the people who embark on them believe they're helping the people they 'save' get in to a good afterlife.
Not saying I believe in the cause though, just a different light on things.
I'm not. I'm talking specifically about scarlettcloud's opinions.
Blagsta,
I'm offended by your opinions on Christianity and confused as you would normally be one of the first to oppose intolerance based on race or creed. You say its the height of arrogance to impose your beliefs on others, so what are we all doing here on thesite, especially in this forum, hardly keeping them private.
On the subject of missions, in common with other beliefs, Christians believe in following their faith and spreading the word to others. Sorry mate but this happens in religion, politics and many other fields.
Also, you are intelligent enough to recognise that there are those who justify there own twisted beliefs in the name of other religions so why not Christianity. Slimeface made a good point (!) with what he said about George Bush and others like him. There are false prophets in all religions, don't get too hung-up on their message.
As I stated before there are Christians on 'missions' doing very good work both home and abroad, the example I gave before was the Salvation Army, in Bristol they run one of the biggest drug and alcohol treatment centres and homeless shelters which are open to those regardless of whether they have any interest in becoming Christians, that is secondary to their immediate needs. The church I attend has its own Social Action minister and is involved with outreach work involving groups as different as the homeless, sex workers, students and the elderly.
What I'm trying to say is there is more to Christianity than a lot of people realise and true Christian faith is more than just opposing non-Christians and imposing beliefs. I am no expert on theology and doctrine, just someone who went through my own personal hell some time ago and turned to Christianity because I sought answers and help which I couldn't find anywhere else and I believe i am a better person for it.
edited to add :
Not all Muslims are like that y'know. It is not a homogenised culture.
This is an example of what confuses me, why the difference?
i never once said that i assumed others were wrong and i was right. "those people" who have their own Gods and own beliefs and own religions, im not talking about "those people" im talking about poor countries who have never heard anything about any kind of religion. i never once said that anyone was wrong and i was right and that i know better. and even if i did think i knew better, that would be MY OPINION which i am perfectly entitled to. God's my judge so i dont really know why im justifying myself to you.
what exactly have you heard or do you know about mission trips and outreach teams? i want you tell me because i really dont know where you are coming from here. every church does it differently. the ones you have heard about or experienced i may disagree with too for all you know!!! many christian churches do many things differently and have many ways of practicing things, which others may see as wrong, but at the end of the day what does it matter as long as they are believing in the same God? there is no right or wrong, just opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. im sorry you dont agree with me but thats your opinion. i have done nothing wrong by contributing to this thread and once again, IM SORRY that you dont agree. i dont not impose my views on others. if you had read my post, you would have noticed that i said i have never taken part in a mission trip or outreach team. so how can you say im imposing my views on others? all i said was that its something my church is actively involved in and i believe in what my church is doing because we hear good things coming from it.
I have no problem with people having religous beliefs at all. But I don't like the idea of missionaries. It strikes me as cultural imperialism and I don't like it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see why helping people has to be connected to trying to convert people to your religion. The history of Western colonialism is tied up with Christian missionaries and I don't like it.
Sorry.
when i mentioned "mission trips" i didnt realise it would spark off such controversy (sp?) maybe im stupid or ignorant, but what do you mean by cultural imperialism?
anyway, a group from my church are heading to the ukraine at the end of this month for some outreach work. but we dont call ourselves missionaries. we are just trying to reach out to people. but we help people in other ways. we have a homeless hostel for men and we also have an independant school. we collect tinned foods and stuff like that for people in our church who are less fortunate, we collect food vouchers, we have a youth drop in centre for kids to go in the evenings instead of being out on the streets taking drugs and drinking and vandalising.
im sorry if you feel i have offended you or given you the wrong impression of what a Christian is. there are so many stereotypes and, no offence, but you used the word "religion". that word is what has ruined Christianity. i am free of religion. i have no views on people being right and people being wrong. my church preaches that we dont NEED to do good works or "save" people. the reason we do all of the things i mentioned is because we desire to be more like Jesus.
Jesus has already done it all, he did it all on the Cross and all we have to do is live the God kind of life flowing with the God kind of love and live by the Word.
i love God and i love people and i am filled with the Holy Spirit and by that spirit i believe in the things like tithing and outreach and helping others because i hear it from God and hear it from the Word. my God is a good God, hes a loving God and desires to bless us all. we dont impose our beliefs on anyone, just share what we believe. Jesus would not impose his beliefs on anyone. Jesus would not have forced anyone to believe Him. He just wants to be our friend and thats what being Christian is. But its our choice He will never force his way in so why would we as humans force our beliefs on anyone? believe me i know exactly where you are coming from because i used to not believe in anything and had 2 christian friends who always went on at me about it, and i felt they were forcing their beleifs on me. but they werent they were just sharing and in the end it had nothing to do with them that i became Christian. its was my own choice. and i tell you i wouldnt change it for the world!!!
cant get onto that site right now...stupid college computers have blocked stuff. oops. will get it later. thanks.
Poor countries have never heard about religion? Even Amazonian tribes have some sort of god/goddesses or the adhere to totemism, animism or shamanism, all beautiful and respectable paths in their own right.
But it's the part of many beliefs to "save" people by converting them. So the individuals probably believe that they're right.
It'd be nice if more people did more for their community, religious or not.
It's actually really nice that people are using the Christian spirituality and Jesus as a model in such a positive way. because I've met some who've done nothing but preach and preach about what is right and wrong and who's going to hell. I'm sure the same applies to individuals of many religions including fellow pagans.
i dont know how to quote certain sections of a post the way you did, so i've just quoted the whole post, sorry!! but no i dont mean all poor countries have never heard of God. but some havent. and yes ok some countries have their own gods/goddesses, but as Christians we believe our God is the one true God, whether other people agree or not...so all we are doing is trying to share our belief with others...ive probably worded that wrong...but i want to get off this whole "mission trips" thing because it sparked off an arguement that wasnt really needed just because i worded something the wrong way.
oops. but i have such a dislike of the word "religion" as i said, that word is what has ruined Christianity. to me, "religion" is about Church and rules and doctrines and preaching about whats right and wrong and whos going to heaven and whos going to hell. its not about that at all. Christianity is about being born again into a personal relationship with God through the blood of Jesus, and everything else that comes with that is because i have the Holy Spirit living inside of me and i hav a desire to become more like Jesus. thats why when people ask me "are you religious" i say "no im free in Christ" because being a Christian is about being free from all those rules.
But shouldn't religion be personal? Instead of 'westernising' other cultures with the idea of modern Christianity? Why can't God reach them all by "himself"?
These people find inspiration in their own ways and if they find happiness, then should that not be enough to live on? Instead of telling them how to live, what is right and wrong. After all these cultures have developed over centuaries, no point in breaking them down.
I don't understand the whole converting process, like in paganism whilst we discuss it within ourselves we won't convert people. But then again because of a stigma that still floats around we have to keep a lot of our stuff kinda secret... or not as open as say... institutionalised religion.
Yep.
Bin Laden believes he's right too. Doesn't make it so.
Yep. But morality does not come from religion. I work with ex-offenders and recovering drug users, but its nothing to do with religion.
Most of the truly spiritual people I know don't shout about it and don't feel the need to impose their path on other people.
All cultures have spiritual/religous beliefs.
Do you not think its the height of arrogance to think that your way is the one true way?
never have, never will
I'm so glad!
I totally understand where your coming from on the cultural imperialism stance, I know enough about colonial history to know how Christianity was used to subvert indigineous people and aid empire building (King Leopold of Belgium and his use of missionaries in the Congo in the springs to mind).
The majority of Christians doing outreach work these days, home and abroad tend to be carrying out social or educational work because there faith has drawn them into it, not to convert people as I said this is secondary. Its like people doing charity work.
A lot of religions especially Christianity and Islam, talk about the need for believers to show charity and help people less fortunate than themselves, the days of us being the Empires foot-soldiers went out with the Empire.
and thats fair enough. But why not get a new term? Mission work has too many historical connotations IMO.
Presume that you haven't read anything else I wrote then...?
Seen many needy arms dealers recently?
Owning huge tracts of land in the UK is really a worthwhile cause, wouldn't you say?
That sickens me. There are many cause who really could be helped, but instead of that, The Church runs fundraisers to rebuild delapadated buildings, for roofing and such like. Yet the Church of England is a immensely rich organisation - as in the Vatican.
Not quite the same thing is it?
Why are you so glad byny that you don't have faith in something?
How many people here actually would go out to a third world country and help them?
Personally i would but not at this stage of my life, in years to come i would though.
Who says he isn't right? How can we define right and wrong? That's open to debate. What I mean is that they believe what they're doing is going to help the people they work with.
Didn't say it does.
Because she's happy that way?
I would if given the chance and I've done work in my community, however I'm pagan. Part of a spirituality painted as devil worshippers in the past. Work in the third world isn't just something Christians do.
On the topic of the Vatican, why will the Pope refuse to debate female ordination in the Catholic church?
And why do they hide all their scrolls and books that could hold revolutionary information in a big vault?
And how do you know? Were you there?
If the Bible is a historical account of the life of Christ it's bound to be biased in some fashion. The middle east in those times was strongly male dominated. Men wrote the Bible.
That's a bit sexist isn't it? Why not? Jesus wasn't a misoginist.
Who cares if children die? You're not a child are you?
Why care if women are circumsized in Africa, I don't live in Africa do I?
:rolleyes:
So you assume that my interests lie entirely within polytheism and the earth? I've interviewed female priests and they're very inspirational people. All I want is equality, why should men be allowed to consecrate wine and baptise and wed people and not a female?
Of course I care about what people do, I don't discriminate by race, gender, sexuality or skin colour, there's little point to it. It would be wonderful to see more women significant in contemporary religious institutions.
It could be argued that there were no whites either (arab lands, ergo liklihood is that all disciples were arabian), yet no-one quibbles about this...
But to be honest, doesn't that just put a huge black line under the "what is wrong with the Church" discussion. Surely it is the meesage which is important, rather than the messenger...
You don't need faith and religion to help people. Stop insinuating that you do.
Where did i say you had to have faith or religion to help people or even hint at it?
Again where did i say work in the third world is only something Christians do?
Yes i know your a pagan as you keep saying and i know ANY person no matter what they are can go out and help people in third world countries.
Why?
If women wanted to become more involved in church life then why don't they start trying to do something about it?
She never said she was happy, i asked byny.