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Bush calls for gay marriage ban

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by SlimeFace


    As for the statement about an infertile couple! Chill your bones, If God hasn't blessed these couples with the gift to concieve then adoption, fostering, medical science etc, are but a few options.

    Gay people aint about conceiving, they HAVE THE OPTION to procreate in a large % of cases, & they take this option away from themselves by CHOOSING to get freaky with someone of the same sex.




    Why shouldn't gay people be allowed to adopt and have a family?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its disgusting, how can the rest of the civilised world stand by and let this happen?

    I don't believe in same sex marriages nor people of the same sex having babies. Both of those things are ment to be between a man and a woman.
    Born gay, erm, Nope.

    Slimface could be right.. Previous research suggested that male homosexuality is passed on from mother to son but there is no real evidence that shows that homosexuality is simply "genetic."
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Felix Da Housecat
    Slimface could be right.. Previous research suggested that male homosexuality is passed on from mother to son but there is no real evidence that shows that homosexuality is simply "genetic."
    Not simply genetic, no, but genetic in the way the hand you write with is - it can also be determined be environmental factors. (Although unlike the hand you write with it can't be changed later in life).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't agree at all. You can't choose your sexuality, therefore you can't "make" people gay.

    I spent about 3 years trying to be straight before I eventually accepted that I can't change. I could date guys, sleep with guys, get married (as in legally, to a guy!) and have 1.8 children but I can't force myself to be attracted to guys. I'm gay and I can't change that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    You can't call me a hypocrite and someone who doesn't know, I've learnt these things first hand.
    I hope you didn't think I was calling you a hypocrite, I never would. I have heard this from you before, and so I know where you're coming from.
    Originally posted by J
    Maybe that's why life is an uphill struggle all the time, a constant refinement and process of perfection, life in this way judges itself in many respects. I guess if it is a matter of genes then after a while it will die out, because gay couples can't have children so the genes that supposedly make people gay will disappear.
    Just a side issue, but actually the gay gene (if it exists, but it most likely does) is recessive so it can continue.
    Originally posted by J
    I've explored many things of myself and have learnt how the mind and body reacts under different variables and have found that the best way, for me at least, is to be straight.
    But I don't think I can be. Since you say you considered yourself bisexual, maybe that's the difference? I have never liked guys. I'm only guessing. You may be right, it could be sheer bloodymindedness on some level preventing me from changing, I don't know.
    Originally posted by J
    Please don't take offence to what I have said, I'm just sharing with you my perception of the matter. It may sound like I think I know everything, I certainly don't, but the library I study form is the one outside my front door, people are like books. This is what gets humankind through some tough spots.
    I'm not offended at all. Everyone's opinions are valid (even those I violently disagree with!) and you have supported everything you say so it's all good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    Personally I think the guy is right. I don't believe that homosexuality should be allowed to become mainstream, not because I dislike gay people for who they are, but because it can spread the wrong "vibes" through society without people even being aware of it. I think that all this publicity is like advertising, setting what I believe is a bad example to future generations.

    In what way, is loving somebody else setting a bad example? Just wondering.

    Also, what are these 'wrong vibes'?
    Yes, people can do what they want in their own private lives, but because it's in the lime light this will almost certainly have some kind of negative effect upon the greater populous through time.

    You mean sexuality as a form of controlling the population? Isn't that a good thing though?

    I'm no prophet, but I do have a little foresight and wisdom.

    Hehe each to his/her own ;) wisdom is subjective. Personally I believe in homosexuality as a good thing, I know some wonderful gay people. The fact that society is becoming accepting of it in my eyes is a good thing because it means we're fearing less what not all people understand. And the break through of fear I believe is revolutionary.

    As Mahatma Ghandi said:

    "Fear is not a disease of the body; fear kills the soul."

    Reduction is different to transcendance, although they both imply that you move down.
    When critical mass is reached society will flip upside down and things will go from bad to worse.

    Expand on this?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    There must be something that changes your sexuality to start with? And maybe habit and giving up is what keeps you that way.

    I can't say I believe this. Ask gay people if they believe it.
    I thought I was bi-sexual, and at a young age I got lured in because of the way I thought (which did have some important psychology behind it - although it would take a book to describe) and did some things I regret. I guess if I let myself I still could be homosexual, but I continuously deny it of myself, so I'm not.

    But that's your experience and not anybody elses. Don't you believe that people should be true to themselves?
    I try to rise above it and beat what my body sometimes wants, or tries to tell me it wants. I'm in control.

    So you believe that sexuality is all about control? You believe there's a sense of rising 'above'? Does that make gay people below you because they've 'given in' to some desire you can't comprehend?

    Again I disagree. Firstly, life is all about what makes you happy and you should go where it takes you, even if you differentiate from the social norms. What would you rather have, denial? Or happiness?
    I've explored many things of myself and have learnt how the mind and body reacts under different variables and have found that the best way, for me at least, is to be straight. In this voyage of discovery I've also seen and understood how the way I am may affect those around me, which could be considered to be more important than anything.

    But that's your experience and nobody elses. Just because you aren't bisexual or gay doesn't mean that other people aren't. You can't generalise by one experience alone. And how does being gay affect people around you?
    Of course, if you don't really care about other peoples future then this doesn't apply.

    If you're talking on a macroscopic scale you could argue that homosexuality controls the population. Looking at the world resources today and the fact that our population is waaaaaaay too big, then it's a good thing. :p

    Please don't assume that because I'm attracted to women, or beauce my friends are attracted to the same sex that we don't give a shit about other people. That's an insult, only an opinion but a misguided one that's utterly offensive.

    I know gay people who work for the community, with children, some gay people work abroad, raise money, do environmental work... just because you're gay/bi/pansexual doesn't mean you don't care about anyone.

    Where do you get your ideas from?

    Sorry if I sounded bolschy. The ol' rat is opinionated, but you back up what you believe which is good.

    Unlike the hiphop wannabe kid :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    I doubt they do, maybe they never thought about it?

    Doubt, but you don't know for sure. Just ask them ;)


    That's exactly what I'm saying. But true to their minds, or true to what they were born? If it's a case of genetics then I appologise sincerely.

    How do you be true to your mind?


    Nobody is below me, all are above, that's why I followed those around me and got myself in shit. I can comprehend it, I can comprehend many, many things.

    Ok, although it's on a tangent... NEVER believe anybody is ever above you. We all came out naked and helpless and we all grow as strong as we choose to grow. If you made mistakes you made 'em, but to learn from your mistakes, that's what makes you strong.

    Don't let yourself even tell you that they're better than you.


    Happiness of course. But what are you denying? Is a lack of denial a truth? I could be a slimy pervert if I wanted too, but I deny that and the reason for that is because I know it is damaging my soul, and my mind. The way I see it I am the bloke who was born to invent the way to prevent the cars accidents. It's still my choice and free will, but I think I have seen fate at work and understood it to be beyond human capability.
    It drove me to the brink of insanity almost.

    There's responsibility and there's truth, they kinda walk hand in hand. Truth is accepting who you are and responsibility is ensuring that you act out who you are in a manner that ensures you won't hurt anyone. I don't see how two consenting adults of the same gender making love and being together is hurting people, really.


    What I'm saying is that I am, yet I choose to ignor it, I've found a path away from that and I can see where it leads and it's somewhere much brighter, trust me on that.

    Again, good for you. If you are happy on your path then go ahead with it, but we all choose our own paths and unless they conflict I don't see why there should be any problem.
    Indeed, It's all about microcosm. It only takes a few lose bricks on a house to make it topple, then we all suffer.
    Do you know anything about quantum mechanics?

    Nope, I'm a sociology student and a psychology one. :)
    Part of the theory is that you can move one atom one side of the universe, and one will move in exactly the same way somewhere completely different. If our actions here require us to move, then it possible that the same actions are moving atoms in exactly the same way somewhere else. Imagine if someone was watching these atoms, or if these atoms played a crucial part in holding the structure of our entire universe together. If we move them the wrong way then we could cause something catastrophic. This is only a theory I have developed, but it does raise some interesting questions.

    But again, what is the right and wrong direction? Homosexuality and bisexuality is even found in animals, dolphins for example and apart from the senseless destruction of mankind they seem to be doing alright. Yes, the theory is interesting but being a sociology student I don't believe that you can apply something as positivist as what you presented to society.

    Just to explain the jargon a little. Positivist approaches to looking at society's issues are very scientific and usually involve statistics and graphs of social trends where as interpretivist approaches look more in depth than statistics. Anyway, not saying that your example is positivist as it hasn't been applied to society, but if you did so on a scale of research then it would be.

    Gagagaga... where were we?

    Oh yeah...

    So what I mean is that society is not like atoms, people have a consciousness, every society is different with its norms and values and political and economical structure.


    I'm not saying that. With men it is different. If these kids are being taught by someone who is camp they are going to adopt some of that persona. Woman tend to be like woman no matter what their sexual outlook, so it probably wouldn't affect the child as much. I've also proved to myself that being around someone for a long period changes the way they behave, and behaviour can easily alter the mind if at an early age. Our experiences gained from our actions are stored in out memory and make up our concious mind, it is these unconcious memories that are part of the control mechanism for our bodies.

    Firstly, not all gay men are camp and as for women, there are differences between the way they behave. Femmes and butches, bois, bull dykes. Gay women can be stereotyped just as easily as men.

    Secondly, I don't understand what you mean about the control mechanisms or the unconscious memories. Unconscious memories are unable to be reached, but subconscious are always there. Memory is a completely different matter all together when looking at the development of children, unless you count say... Bandura's social learning theory which hasn't been proved effective long term.
    Intelligence, wisdom, study, comprehension, knowledge, experience, self judgement, some other things which would take too long to exaplain, I guess that's knowledge.

    Aye, it's just a view points, even if I do believe some of them are misguided. But then that's only a personal opinion.


    I
    t sounds quite in your face and obnoxious, and maybe my approach is wrong and should be saved for some kind of medical lectures. Unfortunately I have no degree or qualifications other than a handfull of GCSE's.

    Not obnoxious at all, you put up a good arguement and don't insult the opposition and others will agree. Qualifications are not everything though, you can have gone to Oxford uni straight from Eaton and still know nothing about the world.
    Feel free to fight back, but be nice, I'm fragile when it comes down to it. That's why I'm a little pissed off about all this.

    Pissed off about what?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    I could be a slimy pervert if I wanted too, but I deny that and the reason for that is because I know it is damaging my soul, and my mind.
    I don't have time to look at all you've said in detail but I wanted to pick you up on this. If by "slimy pervert" you mean gay then please change the way you talk about gay people. I wasn't offended by your comments about human sexuality, but that really got to me.

    Also, many gay people fight their sexuality at first because it's a scary thing being "different" in a society that doesn't like that sort of difference. And I still don't agree that you can find the "root" of your sexuality and undo it! It's not that easy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by SlimeFace
    Prejudice. Moral understanding & admittance to self if you please son.

    This "son" is actually ten years older than you, junior.

    Anyway, back to the question, do you have anything which backs up your predjudice, or is it just based on ignorance...?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    Do you know anything about quantum mechanics? Part of the theory is that you can move one atom one side of the universe, and one will move in exactly the same way somewhere completely different. If our actions here require us to move, then it possible that the same actions are moving atoms in exactly the same way somewhere else. Imagine if someone was watching these atoms, or if these atoms played a crucial part in holding the structure of our entire universe together. If we move them the wrong way then we could cause something catastrophic. This is only a theory I have developed, but it does raise some interesting questions.

    Utter utter nonsense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    I think the fact that many gay people fight their feelings at an early age is some indication, it is to me at least.

    Why do think they do that? Because there are still ignorant bigots like you who make them feel disgusting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unproven Science = theory

    Proven Science = fact

    So to be born gay is theory

    My theory differentiates from the masses, but am I wrong?

    I do not believe genetically you are born with the inability to make a conscious choice at a certain age (depending on the individual) as to whick sex you choose to identify sexually with.

    To choose the same sex is to defy natures way - therefore being UNnatural.

    So I ask - If something is unnatural, is it right?

    Not to say my THEORY or OPPINION is right, but I believe we were put here to procreate..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    You may be right.

    Utter nonsense in that you obviously have no understanding of quantum physics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by SlimeFace
    To choose the same sex is to defy natures way - therefore being UNnatural.

    So I ask - If something is unnatural, is it right?

    Oh dear. Very dodgy ground, philsophically.

    First up define "natural" and "unnatural".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh deary deary!

    In regards to human biology :

    Natural being to procreate - continue - do what our natural organs were put there to do.

    Unnatural - to put our genitalia in a place that is just going to serve a sexual (Animal - savage like) relief or pleasure.

    So to insert a penis into an anus, or for two vaginal openings to rub together for the cause of a "thrill" is an unnatural occurance, & just takes us back towards a neandethol way of thought.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh dear.

    Lets try again.

    Define "natural" and "unnatural".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh deary deary deary deary me!

    I'm actually starting to like you, even though I don't think we could agree on anything.

    You want a dictionary reference, cause if so, it does not apply to this conversation.

    We are talking biology, not the English language (which has been watered down, raped & pillaged) over the last few hundred decades anyway..

    You understood my post, so debate like an adult.

    We can talk science, or math, you choose.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You don't seem to have much grounding in philosophy, sociology or cultural studies.
    The point is, that the terms "natural" and "unnatural" are pure social constructs. They are meaningless. A false binary opposition, if you will. Human beings are part of nature. We are not separate from it. Anything we do, is therefore "natural". How can it not be? The distintinction between "natural" and "unnatural" is therefore a meaningless one.

    And do you really think that sex is only about procreation? You're against contraception? Oral sex? Masturbation? Anal sex with a woman? In fact, by your logic, any sex that does not have a chance of leading to pregnancy is "unnatural" and immoral, yes?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by SlimeFace
    In regards to human biology :

    Natural being to procreate - continue - do what our natural organs were put there to do.

    Unnatural - to put our genitalia in a place that is just going to serve a sexual (Animal - savage like) relief or pleasure.

    So to insert a penis into an anus, or for two vaginal openings to rub together for the cause of a "thrill" is an unnatural occurance, & just takes us back towards a neandethol way of thought.

    The nerve endings in genitalia are there to allow for contact to be pleasureable. Surely therefore pleasure seeking is entirely natural...?

    Q. How is a male's exitement enhanced?
    A. Through the massaging of the prostate.

    Q. How do you massage the prostate?
    A. Anally...

    Again, a natural act.

    Oh, and you seem to have glossed over the "people unable to have children" aspect. Is sex involving any parter unable to concieve "unnatural" then...?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    Just ignore me in future, probably your best bet.
    No need for that, you have as much right as anyone else to state your opinion.

    It's interesting that we are spending so much time debating why people are gay. I'm not sure we'll ever no but the fact remains that it's widely accepted that many people are through no fault of their own, and they cannot change. That being so, why deny a group of people the right to commit to each other for life and receive the same rights as anyone else?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exactly. Who really cares about the reasons, just accept that some people are gay.
    I 've never understood why it bothers some people so much what other people get up to in bed. Maybe they feel threatened?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by SlimeFace
    We are talking biology, not the English language (which has been watered down, raped & pillaged) over the last few hundred decades anyway..

    Jus' wanna say what????

    What relevence does that have to anything? No I mean really. Back up what you're going to say if you're gonna make a point.
    We can talk science, or math, you choose.

    And you know about these? I haven't seen a display of any knowledge in your posts. No studies, no links to back up what you believe. And hey it's an opinion, but don't go patronising people. It makes you look small (that's me being honest).
    The nerve endings in genitalia are there to allow for contact to be pleasureable. Surely therefore pleasure seeking is entirely natural...?

    People have libidos, it's psychology... and even animals seek pleasure.
    And do you really think that sex is only about procreation? You're against contraception? Oral sex? Masturbation? Anal sex with a woman? In fact, by your logic, any sex that does not have a chance of leading to pregnancy is "unnatural" and immoral, yes?

    Does that mean infertile couples can't marry? Or have relationships?


    I can alter my mood and make it extreme quite easily, I'm talking so extreme that I can feel the energy going in or out of myself, from feeling completely dead, to bright and life like. I then walk into a packed club and can see the reaction it has on other people. Surely that is scientific proof that this energy exists, yet I doubt you read about it in many text books.

    See this sounds more like a mind technique, not sexuality. I'd love to discuss this with you some time (but I'm nackered) as I have a different perspective on energies. Maybe you should take up meditation as you seem to put yourself down a lot. If you need any help PM me, but it's good for stressand depression.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyone who thinks that two men engaging in anal sex is 'natural' needs their head examined PRONTO!
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    I 've never understood why it bothers some people so much what other people get up to in bed. Maybe they feel threatened?

    Because I as a hetrosexual find the thought of gay sex disgusting, sorry but I do. Fair enough though, if two consenting blokes want to get it on let them - it doesn't affect me does it.

    I find peadophillia disgusting as well - it is unfortunate that some people will always be attracted to children and they can't help that (is it genetic two). Unlike in a hetro or gay relationship however, you can never have two responsible consenting parties.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by crescendo
    Anyone who thinks that two men engaging in anal sex is 'natural' needs their head examined PRONTO!

    Why? Have you read the thread? Why are you threatened by it?
    If you're truly comfortable in your own sexuality, it won't bother you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Skive
    Because I as a hetrosexual find the thought of gay sex disgusting, sorry but I do. Fair enough though, if two consenting blokes want to get it on let them - it doesn't affect me does it.

    I find peadophillia disgusting as well - it is unfortunate that some people will always be attracted to children and they can't help that (is it genetic two). Unlike in a hetro or gay relationship however, you can never have two responsible consenting parties.

    Why are you comparing homosexuality with peadophilia? That is very offensive and ignorant. They are totally different.
    Paedophilia is non-consensual and exploitative.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    Why are humans the only animals who are homosexual?

    We're not.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why cant Gay people marry?

    If two people want to commit themselves to an act which shows there devotion to each other, why cant we just leave them to it? It doesnt hurt anyone and i cant see why people are making a fuss over this issue when there are more important things to think about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Paedo's & homos.

    So we finally agree ;)

    Paedo's should be either handed over to the family whose child they have abused, or have their parts removed. No genetic this & that bulls*** excuses..



    Homo's : they should just be locked up & cured!
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