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ls "half caste" offensive?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    doesn't that answer it SG?
    Yes.

    Well, that was a brief discussion. Anyone want some tea?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At this time? You'll spoil your sleep.

    Hot chocolate however... :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Come to that 'Paki' means pure in Urdu - but people don't mean it like that
    I wish we could successfully reclaim the word Paki because it isn't a derogatory word in itself. As you've just pointed out it actually means pure/clean.

    And also lets be honest, it can be quite convenient to call someone a Paki instead of Pakistani just like it's convenient to call someone an Aussi instead of Australian.

    But tbh I can't see the racist connotations of that word disappearing any time soon, if ever...

    Regarding the OP, I used to say 'half-caste' all the time when I was younger, and so did everyone else. But lately I know it's better to say 'mixed-race', and thats what I tend to do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When I studied Sociology a few years ago, I learned that the term mixed race has now been consigned to history. The correct term is now 'people/persons of dual heritage'. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what if there are more than two?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    multiple?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's all bullshit really isn't it? There's no-one in the developed world who is exclusively one race. Well actually, race doesn't really exist, but that's just a side note.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't consider the term 'half-caste' objective, x-offender has already pointed out its connotations and derivative, so all I'm really adding here is my two cents, but for what it's worth I would never call my mixed girlfriend 'half-caste.'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought it had more to do with the Caste system in India than anything else? It's derogatory and I wouldn't use it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    what if there are more than two?

    No doubt someone is secretly working out this one. :chin: Actually being British of Jamaican heritage I wonder if the description fits me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've been called both half-caste and mixed race, and though I prefer mixed race, i don't mind half-caste if it's used in a non-derogatory way. but then that's my attitude towards most things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BlackArab wrote: »
    No doubt someone is secretly working out this one. :chin: Actually being British of Jamaican heritage I wonder if the description fits me.

    Those are both nationalities aren't they, so I'd describe you as as 'British' (assuming you don't have dual nationality)

    After all you could be Jamaican and have a white skin tone and British with a black one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Those are both nationalities aren't they, so I'd describe you as as 'British' (assuming you don't have dual nationality)

    After all you could be Jamaican and have a white skin tone and British with a black one.

    I also describe myself as British but considering a dictionary definition of heritage:

    'something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth; an inherited lot or portion: a heritage of poverty and suffering; a national heritage of honor, pride, and courage.'

    I have a national (British) heritage through being born and raised here and a West Indian heritage through my parents. I don't have a problem with it, just wonder how it fits in with the dual heritage tag. If anything I define myself as bi-cultural which probably means the same thing but slightly different in my eyes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BlackArab wrote: »
    I also describe myself as British but considering a dictionary definition of heritage:

    'something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth; an inherited lot or portion: a heritage of poverty and suffering; a national heritage of honor, pride, and courage.'

    I have a national (British) heritage through being born and raised here and a West Indian heritage through my parents. I don't have a problem with it, just wonder how it fits in with the dual heritage tag. If anything I define myself as bi-cultural which probably means the same thing but slightly different in my eyes.

    Yes I see what you mean.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is nationality is different from race. You could have the same skin tone, but your heritage would be totally different if you came from somewhere in Africa (or come to that from a Southern state of the US). You could also be black and have next to no relationship to other countries (thinking specifically of the long-standing black communities in some of the British ports). Or you could be West Indian nationality but white (though I accept that you might have very different experiences from a Black West Indian and have an almost different heritage)

    I'd regard a term like mixed race or half caste as a description of colour, same as I would white, black.

    Dual heritage on the other hand seems to be a description of 'nationality' (at least in its cultural sense)

    I could easily be described as dual heritage in nationality/cultural - Jock Dad, Northern Irish Mum (and with some taff well back as well), but 'race' wise I'd be white.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    btw the original poseter is on about half-cast which my best friend refers to himself as, the barmaid at my old local refers to herself as etc etc yet if i was to use it at work i'd be reprimanded as i was almost once

    i don't use the word in a degratory way, it is just a physical descriptive term used to describe people with coloured, yet ligther skin, like i would say some is black or white or brown or oriental
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i don't use the word in a degratory way, it is just a physical descriptive term used to describe people with coloured, yet ligther skin, like i would say some is black or white or brown or oriental
    Oooh, don't people oriental, that's highly offensive. :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes I see what you mean.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is nationality is different from race. You could have the same skin tone, but your heritage would be totally different if you came from somewhere in Africa (or come to that from a Southern state of the US). You could also be black and have next to no relationship to other countries (thinking specifically of the long-standing black communities in some of the British ports). Or you could be West Indian nationality but white (though I accept that you might have very different experiences from a Black West Indian and have an almost different heritage)

    I'd regard a term like mixed race or half caste as a description of colour, same as I would white, black.

    Dual heritage on the other hand seems to be a description of 'nationality' (at least in its cultural sense)

    I could easily be described as dual heritage in nationality/cultural - Jock Dad, Northern Irish Mum (and with some taff well back as well), but 'race' wise I'd be white.

    Totally agree. The terms dual heritage/mixed race etc are so ambiguous when you think about it, they become inaccurate. I guess its all down to society's obsessions with labels and trying to fit people into neat boxes.

    I have more in common with you through shared experience, than a newly arrived Black immigrant from Africa or the West Indies, the same can be said in reverse with you having little in common with an Eastern European.

    Have to say when I've met white West Indians it always cracks me up hearing them claim about the cold and missing home in the same accents as my parents.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    btw the original poseter is on about half-cast which my best friend refers to himself as, the barmaid at my old local refers to herself as etc etc yet if i was to use it at work i'd be reprimanded as i was almost once

    i don't use the word in a degratory way, it is just a physical descriptive term used to describe people with coloured, yet ligther skin, like i would say some is black or white or brown or oriental
    I've never met a mixed race person who calls themselves "half caste", it's a term which can really offend people. But different strokes for different folks...

    It's the same as how some black people call themselves and their black friends "n*gger", but a white person couldn't use it.

    I don't understand why that is... Or some why people use it. I don't think white people have a right to use it though, or half-caste just because another group does.
    It's the same for me, gay people i go otuw ith sometimes called gay bars fag bars.

    This however, is far more common and in my experience, far more frequent with gay men than women. I could be wrong though, maybe I have just met more flamboyant 'in-your-face-dahhhling' types.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They tell us it's not ok to distinguish between race and colour and when it comes to the point we need to find a word to describe people, we're all left scratching our heads in fear of upsetting someone and being arrested.

    Who is 'they'?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    It's the same as how some black people call themselves and their black friends "n*gger", but a white person couldn't use it.

    I don't understand why that is... Or some why people use it. I don't think white people have a right to use it though, or half-caste just because another group does.

    It's mainly a generational and cultural thing due to younger Black people who have grown around Hip-Hop culture. Just like the examples you gave about gay people some of it has its roots in the reclamation of terms that were traditionally used to denigrate that particular group.

    This is perfectly natural and used a lot more than people realise. I used to own a Jewish jokebook compiled by a Rabbi, I've heard Asians used the term 'paki', Irish people calling each other 'thick paddies' and women calling each other bitch. What you have to remember is its all about context and that these are being used by people who have a common experience.

    In the same way I have a white friend of over 20 years, we can make comments/jokes about race to each other which would be unacceptable if made to us by strangers, the difference is we know each other well enough to understand the context.
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