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"pretending" to be black

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I am in no way trying to promote Political Correctness of any form, but recently, this phrase has really been winding me up. I apologise to all non-Brits while I go off on one about people in Britain.

1. Blazin' Squad. They are idiots, yes? Then can't sing, and they cant rap either. They, are however, putty for their record company. They have found a niche in the commercail music world- the urban boy band, so to speak. They are hip, they are cool, some of them "rap" so their fans think they are really "heavy" and worst of all, "dey tawk lyk dis, yo".

Of course, when people are stating how much they hate Blazin Squad, they often do an impression of them which includes " I is well kewl, cos I pretend I is black".

2. Tim Westwood. He host the Rap Show on BBC Radio 1. Many people who are against rap mock him, and say stuff like " Westwood is such a twat, pretending he is black".

This phrase is starting to really annoy me. Why has this phrase come about? Contrary to the beliefs of many siters, and contrary also to my behaviour, I am actually rather intelligent and affluent. Excuse me while I brag a little, but I go to one of the top 50 privte schools in the country north of Birmingham, where I am the 3rd black African member of the school ( the first and second being my siblings). I am capable of being a member of Mensa ( took the test, didn't join).

I am your regular middle class teenager. I do what my friends do. I play on my computer, surfing the net and the like, play video games, go out with my friends to cinema, shopping etc. It just so happens that I am black. And why should that make a difference.? There are many young Asian who have been taken into this world, but it seems to be a bit different for black people. Do people who eat curry get accused of trying to be Asian? No, they just happen to enjoy a good Tikka Massala. Anyway, back to the point.

I is not from da ghetto. I does not talk like dis. I fookin well dant feel sayf in Sarf Landan. I dont call my "homies" "nigga".So why on Earth should someone who is like this automatically be black, or a wigga, or a wannabe, or whatever people call them these days.

So surely others must agree that this phrase is rather offensive. In fact, for the first time, there is a phrase which a minority actually finds offensive, rather than what the government assumes is offensive?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: "pretending" to be black
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    worst of all, "dey tawk lyk dis, yo".
    umm actually they dont. i was writing up the transcript of an interview with them for the magazine i was working with and they just sound like regular london born kids.

    and believe me, no way in hell i'd usually defend them but you made an error of fact so i thought i'd correct it
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: "pretending" to be black
    Originally posted by paperBprincess
    umm actually they dont. i was writing up the transcript of an interview with them for the magazine i was working with and they just sound like regular london born kids.

    and believe me, no way in hell i'd usually defend them but you made an error of fact so i thought i'd correct it

    Then I stand corrected, but I am pretty sure I was right about everything else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think most of it originates from the US.
    Black kids, understandably associate themselves with popular black culture in the USA, thanks mostly to the media.

    It's no falsehood that the majority of black children, with a few notable exceptions come from poorer backgrounds than many white and asian children, thanks mainly in part to discrimination in jobs in the 70's and 80's.
    Yes, there are exceptions, and yes this also applies to white children as well.
    the black children look for role models, and they see these role models in the black urban "artists" from the USA, and instead of carving their own path in life, they copy another. Rappers make drugs, guns and violence out to be a black person's norm in life, and that all a black kid can expect is to lead that sort of life.

    This has led to a whole new street culture, with black people acting like their American heroes, and white kids wanting to get in on it as well and acting like black people or "wiggas".
    It's just a shame that groups like blazing squad and so solid crew stand for everything a decent society should hate.
    One is a group made of criminals who think guns and drugs are acceptable, the other is made of people who want to be like that group.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But its not even about the people who think (c)rap is rubbish.

    Urban music is black-orientated, it always has been (theres a REASON why the urban music awards are called MOBOs), so any white people getting involved are naturally seen as trying to emulate black culture. And as a lot of rap artists do talk like dey is off to rape da hos in da getto, regardless of whether or not that is an accurate reflection of black people as a whole, the whites trying to be rappers will talk like that. Even Eminem does to an extent.

    But I do find there is something strange about (Tim) Westwood blathering on about the sounds of the 'hood when hes the son of the Bishop of Peterborough.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Loads of white teenagers in south London talk like blazin' squad
    and they're deliberately trying to sound a certain way which is sad really as I think people should just be themselves.
    It can't be labelled as 'black' though because I'm sure black people in Manchester don't sound like that.
    There is a stereotype though because most black people in the UK live in south London.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    But I do find there is something strange about (Tim) Westwood blathering on about the sounds of the 'hood when hes the son of the Bishop of Peterborough.

    Spot on, I don't think hes 'pretending to be black', I just think hes a twat.

    Blazin Squad are another group of annoying wankers going around acting like they are gangsters, they actually achieved very good results at school.
    It can't be labelled as 'black' though because I'm sure black people in Manchester don't sound like that.

    They have Mancunian accents. Talkin like dis is a London thing as far as I can see.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere


    This has led to a whole new street culture, with black people acting like their American heroes, and white kids wanting to get in on it as well and acting like black people or "wiggas".
    It's just a shame that groups like blazing squad and so solid crew stand for everything a decent society should hate.
    One is a group made of criminals who think guns and drugs are acceptable, the other is made of people who want to be like that group.

    Armagedon is at hand! :eek: I actually agree with your post. :crazyeyes

    The language affectation? Is commonly referred to as "Ebonics", at least within the US.

    Anyone ever realize where the baggy clothing, pants falling off hips look originated? In prison, the clothing is ill fitting... and the street urchins - wishing to identify with their "heroes" - wore their clothing in the manner of their "heroes"...

    Impressive, is it not?

    And horatio? You may get over yourself, in any moment... The "Mensa discussion" has been made, previously. I was invited, and rejected them. Pretention never impressed me... ;)

    And? Btw? The pretention of this thread? Would identify you as more "racist" than the "Nazis" you attack, elsewhere.

    Think about it...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How can you 'act' black? You can act like you come from somewhere hense the accent but you can't act black otherwise every black person who does talk like dis is acting white?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe
    And horatio? You may get over yourself, in any moment... The "Mensa discussion" has been made, previously. I was invited, and rejected them. Pretention never impressed me... ;)

    And? Btw? The pretention of this thread? Would identify you as more "racist" than the "Nazis" you attack, elsewhere.

    Think about it...

    The fact that a couple of times I apologised of I came over as pretentious deems your first comment irrelevant.

    However, I would like you to elaborate on why I am being racist, if you would.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you TRULY meet the standards for Mensa...

    ... then you would not require my assistance to lead you...

    :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: If you TRULY meet the standards for Mensa...
    Originally posted by Globe
    ... then you would not require my assistance to lead you...

    :rolleyes:

    And maybe if you weren't so smarmy and hypocritical ( y'see, I am going to actaully pass judgement on you & explain why- you yourself, acting like this, is pretentitious in itself), you would assist me. I did ask you politely :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Umm... isn't the original 'black' accent Creole?
    I think it is...

    I am your regular middle class teenager. I do what my friends do. I play on my computer, surfing the net and the like, play video games, go out with my friends to cinema, shopping etc. It just so happens that I am black. And why should that make a difference.? There are many young Asian who have been taken into this world, but it seems to be a bit different for black people. Do people who eat curry get accused of trying to be Asian? No, they just happen to enjoy a good Tikka Massala. Anyway, back to the point.

    But talking Differential Educational Achievement statistically, Afro Carrabeans do worse than Caucasian, Indian and Chinese students (stats needed if wanted). I don't mean it in a bad way of course towards you, labelling sucks big donkey balls but a lot of people base their opinions on things like that. I think in general there are a lot of working class afro-carrabeans about who have a subculture that a lot of people see and then tar everybody with the same brush... based entirely on skin colour. Sad, innit.
    And horatio? You may get over yourself, in any moment... The "Mensa discussion" has been made, previously. I was invited, and rejected them. Pretention never impressed me...

    How do you know that was a pretention and not the truth? I mean Benjamin Zephaniah was offered an OBE and turned it down and that's a mighty fine offer he got there too... maybe Doc didn't want to be a part of this little elite club?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    Umm... isn't the original 'black' accent Creole?
    I think it is...

    Which is actually where takn lik dis comes from.

    How do you know that was a pretention and not the truth? I mean Benjamin Zephaniah was offered an OBE and turned it down and that's a mighty fine offer he got there too... maybe Doc didn't want to be a part of this little elite club?

    Because he felt it necessary to mention it as if it made him different from everybody else. It may not be an intentional pretention, but it was still pretentious.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    Umm... isn't the original 'black' accent Creole?
    I think it is...



    http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/creole
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Because he felt it necessary to mention it as if it made him different from everybody else. It may not be an intentional pretention, but it was still pretentious.

    I never said anything about turning it down. I was invited to take the test by a friend of my dad, and I took some unofficial test that he somehow had ( don't ask me how), and he said it was of Mensa standard. I just didn't persue it, I didn't turn them down or anything like that, and it had nothing to do with my stance on "their elitist group", I just didn't want to. I don't understand how that is pretentious, but then no one in their right mind is going to admit they are, so you may well be right.

    And I have always thought dat dis was Ebonikz personally.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think some of you have grasped Doc Horatio's point.

    (Excuse me if I am wrong, Doc)

    I think that what he is trying to ask is why do people assume being Black means talking/acting like Blazin' Squad etc do?

    Talking all the tough "homie" stuff is only one aspect of being Black - just one aspect of Black culture.

    If a Black man was to act "White", would we be expecting him to talk with a plumby posh accent and go fox hunting? Probably. Because that's what other colours may assume being "White" is all about. But being White is more than just how we speak. And being Black is being more than about the way the "homies" speak and behave.

    Why don't people assume that being "Black" has a lot more to offer (if you want to emulate them) rather than these rap stars etc who actually contribute to this sterotype?

    There are a multitude of talented Black doctors, lawyers, actors, scientists etc out there. These are the people we should be trying to emulate - whether we are Black or White.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Teagan
    If a Black man was to act "White", would we be expecting him to talk with a plumby posh accent and go fox hunting?

    Which, interestingly enough, is what people say about Chris Eubank. because he goes hunting and owns a pad in the country, people say he is trying to be "white". I dont think its as one-sided as doc was trying to say.

    There are a multitude of talented Black doctors, lawyers, actors, scientists etc out there. These are the people we should be trying to emulate - whether we are Black or White.

    But they arent part of Black "culture" in the same way that they arent a part of White "culture". People should be trying to emulate the success of these people, but you cannot define a culture by the professions of people.

    I suppose it is all down to stereotyping, most white people do not like hunting and speak with a cut-glass accent, and most black people are not down wid da homies ai. But at this stage in time black culture is seen as down wid da homies, just as white soul singers in the 60s were accused of trying to be black.

    Just goes to show that stereotypes are not really all that reliable:)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Acting Black

    Edited to remove racist material.

    LadyJade
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    But they arent part of Black "culture" in the same way that they arent a part of White "culture". People should be trying to emulate the success of these people, but you cannot define a culture by the professions of people.

    I agree with you here Kermit.

    Black doctors, teachers, lawyers, dentists who were brought up in a family speaking with a 'creole' or whatever it is dialect, have to speak in a clear British English dialect because the people that they serve demand it. Its no good going to a doctor or employing a lawyer when you can't understand what they're saying.

    It does completely piss me off, however, when I hear young black kids in London speaking 'like Dis rudeboy', but probably only as much as it annoys me to hear white people speaking 'like dey doo Down Souf'. The English language is a thing of beauty and so many people abuse it these days. Speak properly for christ sake! its not hard!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by giantno1
    but probably only as much as it annoys me to hear white people speaking 'like dey doo Down Souf'. The English language is a thing of beauty and so many people abuse it these days. Speak properly for christ sake! its not hard!
    so are you saying that we shouldn't have regional accents and we should all learn to speak like middle class home counties ladies and gentlemen?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    cockney's just a mockery of the english language. Those people can't pronounce they're TH's, t's or d's. Its like they have some sort of disability. As long as you articulate the way the english language requires that you do, it's fine
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by giantno1
    cockney's just a mockery of the english language. Those people can't pronounce they're TH's, t's or d's. Its like they have some sort of disability. As long as you articulate the way the english language requires that you do, it's fine

    It's not only cockney's that don't pronounce t's etc
    It's not a disability, not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth and they come from areas of London where people have spoken like that for years thus start speaking with that accent as accents develop to be like those around you.
    Yeah let's have a country where everyone speaks like the queen, that would be interesting wouldn't it! :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Edited

    LadyJane has edited a post I just made which refers to a study on race and intellegence by a well known researcher named Jenkins who also did a famous study on following a group of extremly bright individuals over a 50 year period.

    Editing researched material and labeling it as racist because it does not promote blacks as being the most gifted of humankind does not bode well for a forum that expounds on being open-minded and fair.

    This is another very liberal politically correct site that holds my absolute disgust.

    I will leave this site to the bobbleheads who wag their politically correct noggens in unison--like lemmings going over a cliff.

    Moderator--MS LadyJane--Please remove me from this site. I do not wish to be associated with closed-minded individuals nor will I agree with socialist propaganda.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's back to mil.com and like-minded individuals then... :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by giantno1
    does completely piss me off, however, when I hear young black kids in London speaking 'like Dis rudeboy', but probably only as much as it annoys me to hear white people speaking 'like dey doo Down Souf'. The English language is a thing of beauty and so many people abuse it these days. Speak properly for christ sake! its not hard!

    English is a living and evolving language.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Edited
    Originally posted by OldDog
    LadyJane has edited a post I just made which refers to a study on race and intellegence by a well known researcher named Jenkins who also did a famous study on following a group of extremly bright individuals over a 50 year period.

    Editing researched material and labeling it as racist because it does not promote blacks as being the most gifted of humankind does not bode well for a forum that expounds on being open-minded and fair.

    This is another very liberal politically correct site that holds my absolute disgust.

    I will leave this site to the bobbleheads who wag their politically correct noggens in unison--like lemmings going over a cliff.

    Moderator--MS LadyJane--Please remove me from this site. I do not wish to be associated with closed-minded individuals nor will I agree with socialist propaganda.

    That study has been discredited as you well know.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by giantno1
    As long as you articulate the way the english language requires that you do, it's fine

    But what is the "English language"? There are some dialectal words that have been around longer than some Standard English words- why is the former worse than the latter?

    The trouble with a lot of people is that they put meaningless qualitative judgements on certain dialects and accents. Not all of them sound pleasant, but they are just as valid- "The Queens English" is an accent just like the rest of them.

    And the dialect and accent you refer to is not actually "Cockney", rather Estuary English, which is a bastardised version of Cockney and other South-East accents.

    Edited due to my inability to spell.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Edited
    Originally posted by OldDog
    LadyJane has edited a post I just made which refers to a study on race and intellegence by a well known researcher named Jenkins who also did a famous study on following a group of extremly bright individuals over a 50 year period.

    The research has been widely discredited by other socioligists and geneologists, and the authour of the study himself retracted his findings at a later date.

    Therefore to use inaccuarte information to back up an untenable position, and then to whine when people pull you up on it, is a mite childish.

    Tata.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Edited
    Originally posted by OldDog
    LadyJane has edited a post I just made which refers to a study on race and intellegence by a well known researcher named Jenkins who also did a famous study on following a group of extremly bright individuals over a 50 year period.

    Editing researched material and labeling it as racist because it does not promote blacks as being the most gifted of humankind does not bode well for a forum that expounds on being open-minded and fair.

    This is another very liberal politically correct site that holds my absolute disgust.

    I will leave this site to the bobbleheads who wag their politically correct noggens in unison--like lemmings going over a cliff.

    Moderator--MS LadyJane--Please remove me from this site. I do not wish to be associated with closed-minded individuals nor will I agree with socialist propaganda.



    I know all about those studies.....they claim that white people are inherently more intelligent than Blacks. However they failed to take into account that black people over the last 50 years have never recieved anything close to the level of education white people enjoy.

    No scientific study has proven that black people are born stupid, all they have proven is that they have been disadvantaged in schools.
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