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racism in the police force.

13

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Ok lets give a scenario.

    Black man driving car along street, police car behind him, policeman in car cannot see what colour the person is until he is up his back end. Policeman suddenly see's black man/woman and thinks *hey black man/woman here, lets stop him*. Yeah ok.

    and sorry but if you can give me no actual evidence of what does happen then its pointless debating this any further.
    sorry becky but your wrong.
    i used to live in moss side. the black guys who were dealing drugs would have them moved about by white guys ...cos white were less likely to get a pull. it's even more so now!
    if a black guy drives into white towns here in wales ...it's almost a guarantee of getting pulled over cos there are very few black people here. same for asians. they satand out a mile round here and constantly get pulled over.
    the ethnic minority who seem to be least harrassed are orientals.
    the police themselves keep saying there is institutional racism that they are finding very difficult to deal with ...so why don't you believe them?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It happens all the time Becky. I'm not going to start searching now but there was a specific case of a man who was stopped 18 times in 36 months or thereabouts. He asked why he was being stopped so often one cop went as far as saying that he filled the criteria (i.e. black man + expensive car).

    He complained and went public, and following that he has been arrested numerous times by the police by such shocking offences as "sucking his teeth" in front of a police officer and other nonsense. He was not charged a single time with anything, and all the arrests all of the sudden can only be seen as petty revenge for going public.
    Black man driving car along street, police car behind him, policeman in car cannot see what colour the person is until he is up his back end. Policeman suddenly see's black man/woman and thinks *hey black man/woman here, lets stop him*. Yeah ok.
    It doesn't quite happen like that. More of a case of police cars stationed at roads, eyeing up incoming traffic and stopping certain cars. It is common knowledge that black citizens get stopped a disproportionate number of times. The police might catch more 'criminals' that way, but the 98% law abiding black citizens who still get stopped every other time they drive to Tescos surely don't appreciate it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    sorry becky but your wrong.

    I wouldn't say im wrong, I have my opinion.

    People are saying more black people get stopped surely it depends on the population in that area and how many black people live there. If the area is prodominently black then it makes sense that more blacks are going to be stopped.

    I know many white people who drive and have been stopped, they have not done anything wrong but the police have had a good look over the car and tried to find something wrong. In this type of case I put it down to the police officer having a shitty day and would do anyone, whatever their colour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    I wouldn't say im wrong, I have my opinion.

    People are saying more black people get stopped surely it depends on the population in that area and how many black people live there. If the area is prodominently black then it makes sense that more blacks are going to be stopped.

    I know many white people who drive and have been stopped, they have not done anything wrong but the police have had a good look over the car and tried to find something wrong. In this type of case I put it down to the police officer having a shitty day and would do anyone, whatever their colour.
    i can almost gaurantee that if your black or asian and drive into my all white town you will be stopped and searched. you saw the programme ...but you still don't want to believe it. you have heard what the police chiefs have said about the problem and the politicians and still you don't want to believe it!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    you saw the programme ...but you still don't want to believe it.

    Sorry have to correct you there, I did not see the programme, which I did say in my first post here ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Sorry have to correct you there, I did not see the programme, which I did say in my first post here ;)
    you don't get let off that easy!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Ok lets give a scenario.

    Black man driving car along street, police car behind him, policeman in car cannot see what colour the person is until he is up his back end. Policeman suddenly see's black man/woman and thinks *hey black man/woman here, lets stop him*. Yeah ok.

    and sorry but if you can give me no actual evidence of what does happen then its pointless debating this any further.

    and isn't this actually what one of the officers caught said he would do?

    Becks as you said you live in an area with few black people thats why it seems unbelievable, I've shocked even white friends of mine who live in Bristol which has an ethnic minority, with some of the things which has happened to me or other black people I know.

    If you don't know its going on you would naturally find it unbelievable, unfortunately in some areas it still does. There is racism in the police force the police have admitted it before this program, us denying it won't make it go away.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    blagsta, can you give some me statistics about the proportion of black people driving nice cars that they didn't obtain by legal means (either stolen, or using immoral money etc.), compared with the statistics for white people driving nice cars that they didn't obtain by legal means?

    also, could you give me some stats on black people being stopped in different areas of predominent ethnicity? and the same with white people. and also the proportion of crime carried out by different ethnicities please.

    Try the Home Office
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by kaffrin
    :yes:

    the only experience i have of police is the couple of times we have been burgled, when they never gave me any reason to doubt them.

    a couple of members of my family were policemen, in their youth, and they were not dodgy in the slightest.


    thats a stark contrast to northern ireland, in my area which is predominately republican, two 70 yr old pensioners where robbed in their house, it took the police 3 days to respond to come to their house where they just asked questions and left, the situation in ireland is that 80% of the police force is protestant and most really do hate catholics, so what i'm trying to say is that there is always goin to be extremists in any profession of jobs, u just have to accept it and move on
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    There is racism in the police force the police have admitted it before this program, us denying it won't make it go away.

    Thats certainly not the point I was making.

    I believe that some police officers are racist, but its not something that the whole force should be atrred with under such a ludicrous term as "institutionalised racism". Ive heard drivers for the Go bus company speaking in racist terms, it doesnt mean that all bus drivers are racist and that Go is "institutionally racist".

    Racism is bad. But to tar a whole workforce because of the actions of a minority is ridiculous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Uncle Joe, sorry but im a law abiding citizen, I didnt know you could challenge the fine by post. Ive never had dealings with the police for my behaviour etc, so in all honesty I have not got a clue how that part of the system works.
    Neither have I. Then again, I'm not the one making assertions without any evidence to back them up...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Ok lets give a scenario.

    Black man driving car along street, police car behind him, policeman in car cannot see what colour the person is until he is up his back end. Policeman suddenly see's black man/woman and thinks *hey black man/woman here, lets stop him*. Yeah ok.

    and sorry but if you can give me no actual evidence of what does happen then its pointless debating this any further.

    you are so naive its amazing. I'm not saying that all police are racist, I'm not saying it hasn't got any better (it has, at least the bad old days of the sus laws are over), but there is still institutional racism within the police force. To believe otherwise, in the light of the Macpherson report, the statements of senior ethnic minority officers, the experience of many black people and programmes like the one the other night, is, quite frankly, weird.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    blagsta, can you give some me statistics about the proportion of black people driving nice cars that they didn't obtain by legal means (either stolen, or using immoral money etc.), compared with the statistics for white people driving nice cars that they didn't obtain by legal means?

    also, could you give me some stats on black people being stopped in different areas of predominent ethnicity? and the same with white people. and also the proportion of crime carried out by different ethnicities please.

    No, I haven't got the figures to hand. But its the experience of a lot of black friends of mine.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    I wouldn't say im wrong, I have my opinion.

    People are saying more black people get stopped surely it depends on the population in that area and how many black people live there. If the area is prodominently black then it makes sense that more blacks are going to be stopped.

    I know many white people who drive and have been stopped, they have not done anything wrong but the police have had a good look over the car and tried to find something wrong. In this type of case I put it down to the police officer having a shitty day and would do anyone, whatever their colour.

    No. You are actually wrong. Its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of the actual experience of a lot of black people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Thats certainly not the point I was making.

    I believe that some police officers are racist, but its not something that the whole force should be atrred with under such a ludicrous term as "institutionalised racism". Ive heard drivers for the Go bus company speaking in racist terms, it doesnt mean that all bus drivers are racist and that Go is "institutionally racist".

    Racism is bad. But to tar a whole workforce because of the actions of a minority is ridiculous.

    you misunderstand what "institutional racism" is. Its not people being out and racist and calling people ******s, its more about an ingrained attitude or culture within an organisation. The police tend to automatically see black people as being more suspicious than white people. Black kids hanging around the street are more likely to get questioned and hassled than white kids etc. Its often not a conscious thing, its almost subconscious.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Uncle Joe
    Neither have I. Then again, I'm not the one making assertions without any evidence to back them up...

    So im not allowed to *think* what may go on ?
    I have said its what I have seen in the media which makes me think like I do, ive admitted I have not got a clue what goes on with regards to courts, I really dont know what else to say :)

    On another note there must be racism in every profession, what about prison officers? do we know of any statistics about them being racist ? or what about black police officers picking on white people ?
    Im not saying this happens, id be curious to hear peoples thoughts on these couple of things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    No. You are actually wrong.

    Excuse me im sick of being told im wrong, I have my opinion and you coming out and saying "im wrong" is not the way it works. Its up to you to change my view, dont just sit there and say *your wrong*.
    I really think you need to take a leaf out of BlackArabs book, he has the decency to understand that i live in a prodominently white area and can understand why I find it hard to accept. He has given me things to think about, not just come out and said he is right and I am wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Look at chapter 3 in this report
    http://www.ncre.co.uk/s95race99.pdf.pdf

    "For the majority of police forces, it was
    apparent that the number of stops and searches
    relative to the resident population was
    consistently higher for black people than for
    white people (Table 3.2). Overall black people
    were six times more likely to be stopped than
    white people. The ratio of black to white
    however ranged substantially between police
    force areas, often reflecting the small numbers
    involved from particular ethnic groups. In
    some police force areas the rate of stops and
    searches for black people was below (e.g.
    Northumbria) or close to (e.g. Durham) that
    for white people."
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Excuse me im sick of being told im wrong, I have my opinion and you coming out and saying "im wrong" is not the way it works. Its up to you to change my view, dont just sit there and say *your wrong*.
    I really think you need to take a leaf out of BlackArabs book, he has the decency to understand that i live in a prodominently white area and can understand why I find it hard to accept. He has given me things to think about, not just come out and said he is right and I am wrong.

    No, you are wrong. Deal with it. You deny that black people are more likely to be stopped and searched. This is true in some areas, but not in most...ergo you are wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    No, you are wrong.

    You really dont want to try and discuss this do you. You always have to be right dont you, your not listening to a word I say and thats your choice but its pointless discussing it any further, im not sitting here wasting my time on someone who cannot even meet me half way.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    So im not allowed to *think* what may go on ?
    I have said its what I have seen in the media which makes me think like I do, ive admitted I have not got a clue what goes on with regards to courts, I really dont know what else to say :)
    There really isn't anything else for you to say, but that hasn't stopped you before :)
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    On another note there must be racism in every profession, what about prison officers? do we know of any statistics about them being racist ? or what about black police officers picking on white people ?
    Im not saying this happens, id be curious to hear peoples thoughts on these couple of things.
    Sure there's probably a degree of discrimination in all professions, but you can only be refused a job if you apply in the first place. You can be stopped by the police anytime you go outside. I don't think we need to worry too much about prison warders wrongfully assuming that their charges have criminal tendencies, and black police officers probably work in black areas. It would be the sensible way to deploy them, in short supply as they are, although I wouldn't blame them for being cheesed off about it, smacking as it does of segregation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You really dont want to try and discuss this do you. You always have to be right dont you, your not listening to a word I say and thats your choice but its pointless discussing it any further, im not sitting here wasting my time on someone who cannot even meet me half way.


    errrmm..what the fuck? :confused:

    I'm not the one that is totally discounting what other people say and refusing to believe it.

    Talk about hypocrisy. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Uncle Joe
    There really isn't anything else for you to say, but that hasn't stopped you before :)


    Im learning by the mistakes ive made in the past ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Im learning by the mistakes ive made in the past ;)


    BeckyBoo thats why I seek to discuss with you not argue. For the records sake there's nothing wrong with seeking the truth through listening to someone else's argument..

    People, BeckyBoo is one of the those who will listen to ALL sides of the argument and then make her own mind. Present anything you believe in, thats enough.

    Blagsta/Uncle Joe: Hold tight!

    ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Im learning by the mistakes ive made in the past ;)
    you mean we are allowed to make mistakes! i'll have to try that one day.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I hope after all this the Police will not feel in anyway inhibited in stop +searching blacks +Asians as needed but then I bet they're on tippytoes about policing non-Whites.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    No, you are wrong. Deal with it. You deny that black people are more likely to be stopped and searched. This is true in some areas, but not in most...ergo you are wrong.

    No, she is right and YOU are wrong, my dear.

    BeckyBoo lives in County Durham. Your OWN QUOTE said that in County Durham and in Northumberland, the neighbouring county, that black people are LESS LIKELY to be stopped than white people. YOU have confirmed her own thoughts, so you cannot come back and say SHE is wrong.

    People can only judge things on their own experiences, and when your OWN FACTS prove her personal experience to be correct, then you cannot come back and say she is wrong.

    You are wrong. Deal with it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by solo
    I hope after all this the Police will not feel in anyway inhibited in stop +searching blacks +Asians as needed but then I bet they're on tippytoes about policing non-Whites.

    A vain hope, I believe.

    If people had used the example of Gurpval Singh, maybe Id have had time for the argument, but to say that the police are racist because theyre more likely to stop black people (who are more likely to be committing a sodding crime in the first place) is a nothing point.

    There are racist coppers. Some of them are very high in the force. It doesnt mean that the police force is racist. If youre more likely to commit a crime then youre more likely to get stopped- people I know off the two rough council eststaes near me get stopped just as often as blacks and Pakistanis, and thats because estaters commit more crime than people from some executive housing development.

    Or is that "institutionally estatist"?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    BeckyBoo thats why I seek to discuss with you not argue.

    Thank you, a much better way for me to make my own mind up :)


    Thank you Kermit for clarifying that to Blagsta for me :)

    Now with them thank you's out of the way, can we continue :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with what Kermit is saying re rough housing estates, in my area you are more likely to get stopped if you are in the rough area at midnight than if you were in a more respectable area of the town at the same time.

    So are black people getting stopped more in rough areas ?

    Also what about known criminals be they black or white, arent they more likely to be stopped rather than either you or I ?
    So in that case are the police picking on too many people unneccesary ?
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