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How many policemen were named in the BBC report? Five?
How many policemen are there in the UK? 25,000?
Those people should be dismissed if they actually did what they have been alleged to have done, but I take any investigative journalism of thisd kind with a lorry-load of salt. How amny forced did they go through to find these specimens, how many good honest coppers were ignored just to create this scare-story?
Look hard enough you will find a bad apple in every barrel.
And its unlikely that I will ever change my opinions of Lawrence, incompetence makes a racist not. Or at least, not necessarily.
Why wasn't Lawrence's friend's [and witness] testimony investigated properly? Why were the several tip-offs naming the five c*nts as the murderers also ignored? The answer is because the cops couldn't be arsed to do anything and dismissed the murder as a drug-related killing. Because Lawrence was black wasn't it, and that's what they all do, black people: deal on drugs and kill each other.
And that is what counts as institutionalised racism. I'm not saying that all cops in the Met are like that. But when several individuals at several levels of the investigation act in such manner then the force itself (or if you prefer, the system) must be at fault.
Damilola Taylor's murder wasnt in all that different circumstances. The police KNEW whod done it, but the evidence was little more than circumstantial. However, under pressure from the delightful Lawrences the case was rushed to the CPS, and then rushed to Crown Court.
It collapsed within hours.
Damned if they do and damned if they dont.
It isnt just blacks who get screwed over by incompetent coppers, y'know- theres 96 buried on Merseyside for starters.
They're not that different from, say, the parents of Sarah Payne featuring regularly on the media and making all sorts of demands. So why are they treated so differently?
Back to the "police racism" issue, like I said before I'm not accusing everyone in the police of being racist; I'm not even suggesting the institution itself is intentionally racist. But the Lawrence case qualifies as institutional racism because the force failed at many levels to ensure the individuals in charge of the investigation did their job properly. And that happened because of certain assumptions, certain stereotypes that existed at the time and that prejudiced the investigation.
Every time a black person gets arrested, you can be certain that rent-a-gob Lawrence will be not far behind, demanding that its racist that any black person ever gets arrested. Theyre always whining about how ALL policemen are racist thugs, and how no-one ever treated properly at the hands of the beastly police.
And I have a similar disregard for the parents of Sarah Payne, and any other rent-a-gob you can think of. Like that ambulance-chasing solicitor working for the victims of Ladbroke Grove- that silly tart was so stupid that she said train deaths are inexcusable, because it encourages people to travel by car which is 200 times more dangerous. Que?
The thing is, I have yet to see any proof that the police acted in the way that they did simply because Stephen Lawrence was black. The police fucked up, they didnt check Lawrence properly before they left him, and the investigation was not handled right, but I dont think it was because he was black. He was laid in a doorway, on a Friday night, in exactly the same way a drunk person would- after a while, the police are going to just keep walking. Its not right, but its only human. Especially if someone at the end of the street is kicking off a fight.
As I said earlier, look hard enougha nd you will find bad in every organisation. Im sure if I looked hard enough and long enough I would find members of, say, the LGBTA, that hated black people. It doesnt mean that all members of the LGBTA are racist, or that the LGBTA is racist. It means that theres a numbskull who still lives in the dark ages- grow up and deal with it. I get plenty of racist abuse in Bradford, but I dont bleat about it to anyone wholl listen. I just get on with it.
Care to rectify this?
Yeah got to agree with that. I also think some black people shout *racist* to try and get the courts to feel sorry for them.
i am sure it has happened but you nedd some backing really........
No I havent, but I did say think .
You think something for a reason..............
Ive seen newspapers and hear the stories of black people getting stopped and then the black person says it was racial. They say they were walking down the street, minding their own business yet they were stopped, they then say *racial*.
White people walk down the street, minding their own business and get stopped, but have to take it with a pinch of salt.
Thats where I get my view from and stuff on T.V.
That ok for you
Im not saying they want to press charges against an officer for what they say is the police being racist .
I feel that if someone has been charged with a minor offence and they are sent to court then the black person would try the sympathy vote by saying they were only stopped because of their colour. They say the police victimised them because of their colour.
What I am saying is when some black people get stopped they say that they have been victimised purely by their colour. They say they were only stopped because they are black, hence they see it as racial. In effect the police stop black/white/asian whatever colour because they normally have a reason, or they sense something is not right.
But please dont group all black people into what I have just written, there are good in everyone, regardless colour/nationality. I dont want to be called racist now, do I
Black people are also more likely to get longer sentences in court than white people, for the same offence. Black people are also more likely to be diagnosed with mental health issues, compared to white people with similar behaviour, who tend to just get viewed as "eccentric".
So do white people, people get stopped all the time. Also if it was an area which is prodominently black then obviously more are going to be stopped.
I do not think its as bad that its made out to be, however in my area there are more white people, hardly any are black/coloured. So I am basing my thoughts to what I see on the media etc.
If you could show me proof then obviously then my view could change.
Its always happening in Bradford.
The riots of 2001. Pakistani rioters burn down the Manningham Ward Labour Club, with 100 people in it, Pakistani rioters torch two car garages. Pakistani rioters hurl firebombs at the police. Pakistani rioters claim a "matrix of racial fear" as justification for seriously wounding two police officers, and get their sentences cut accordingly.
November 2000. A group of 200 Pakistanis fire fireworks at Toller Lane Police Station. No arrests, no further action, even though the offenders were KNOWN.
And I wont mention my friend who was mugged by 15 Pakistanis in an area surveyed by CCTV, and beaten, yet conveniently "there was no tape in the machine".
It happens. And I notice no-one seems to think that, as a proportion of population, the fact that a black man is more likely to commit a serious crime than a white man could explain why the police are more likely to stop black men.
I maintain that the polce are there to stop crime, and if the crime is being committed by blacks/Asians/whatever then it shouldnt matter one jot. WHY the ethnic minorities are committing more crime, as a proportion, is something for the rest of society to address.
Actually none of the above
I just think its ironic considering that it is perfectly acceptable for the police to film, take photos, bug etc members of the public in their line of duty. I watched the police quite recently filming supporters at a match where no trouble was expected or occured. At an anti-war demo this year police officers aggressively filmed people including families with children protesting peacefully.
As you reap, you sow. Sorry.
This sort of journalism isn't new, we all enjoy watching the fake drama and 'intrepid' presenters and laugh when some criminal gets exposed, we just want it to be people we don't like already. If the officers had been been Burberry caps instead of helmets would we have been shocked about their views?
They got caught and forced to resign rightfully so, they are civil servants and work for US. We are different and we have equal rights, they expressed views contrary to any decent society. The way they got caught is now irrelevant.
I think the Police on the whole do a good job with the resources they have and the support of the public. But to keep that support they have to be acceptable to the public.
Considering that many of the Nazi/BNP c unts who inflamed that situation are involved in public order disturbances and racist incidents every weekend as a matter of habit and don't get anything harsher than a night in a police cell, every sentence reduction the Asian rioters might have had was too little, too late.
If only we could send BNP racist c unts to jail for 8 years every time they go mental... :rolleyes:
A sad but very common occurrence in Britain today and indiscriminate of race, social status or religion. And your point is?
Please! If we were all to start recalling incidents were someone was mugged/assaulted by people of other race and suggest the police did not record the incident because of the race of the assailants, we could be here until hell freezes over trying to outdo each other.
As I recall, the plaque remembering Stephen Lawrence has been attacked at least once, and yet conveniently "there was no tape in the CCTV recording equipment" watching over it so no-one was arrested. Can I suggest it was all a plot by the racist police, or does it only apply when the victim is white?
So do we stop every black person then? If a study reveals that right-handed people are more likely to commit a crime than left-handed people should we stop all right handed folk every day just in the off chance we can catch a real criminal?
Perhaps the police should start giving a rough time to every single young-ish white male who is within 2 miles of a football ground on a Saturday, since 99.99% of football related offences are committed by young-ish white males.
I'm all for stop and search when the police feels there is a genuine chance there might be dealing with a criminal. But too often it seems that the police's detection techniques when looking for criminals are limited to "black" + "good car".
You might think there is nothing wrong with this. If you were an honest, law-abiding black citizen (as the immense majority of black citizens are) who gets stopped and searched an average of 16 times a year (as some have) you would think differently.
And that, incidentally, is another example of institutionalised racism. The fact that many old bill seem unable to comprehend that there are black people out there who make a good honest living and can afford a £35,000 BMW without having to resort to crime.
errrrr...no. Black people get stopped because they are black. A black personn driving a nice car is automatically seen as suspicious by the police. My black friends get it all the time.
So white people dont get stopped ?
ok.
Shall I tell you how many BNP "racist c unts" came to Bradford? 30.
Shall I tell you how many got past the train station? 0.
To blame the BNP for the riots of 2001 is lazy at best. 30 BNP tossers come to Bradford, and that excuses over 2000 Pakistanis going on the rampage? Please.
Football fans ARE hassled by the police. Whats your point?
How law-abiding MOST of the people are is not relevant. Some estate wide-boy driving a "good car" is just as likely to be stopped as a black man driving a "good car" (though I have no concrete facts, only personal experience). A group of lads in baseball caps will get stopped in a car, does that mean that the police are also institutionally baseball-cap-ist?
If in police experience black + good car = drugs, then black men in good cars are more likely to get stopped. It doesnt make it right, but its an understandable human reaction. It snot something that excusable, but something that can be understood.
I seriously dont think that if there was no link most coppers would stop and search so often- a few would, just to irritate blacks, but most wouldnt. And to label a whole WORKFORCE because of the primitive beliefs of a few is riduculous- its as ridiculous as the medias portrayal of anti-war protestors as stoner hippies.
Please xplain however, why is it that most of those black people end up in court?
Yes, maybe they are stopped because they are at black, doesn't matter if they were actually doing something does it.
The police are trained to act on instinct and taught to judge a book by its cover. If they see someone who looks dodgy they'll stop him, most of the time that person is black, but most of the time that police officer was correct to judge his instincts.
Still not seeing how that would work though. When the court asks a black defendent if there are any mitigating circumstances, does he/she say that 'I was only arrested because I is black'? The case is surely tried on the evidence put forward by the police. If there is sufficient evidence to obtain a prosecution, accusations of racial prejudice will be futile. If there is insufficient evidence, the case will never be brought in the first place.
Don't people get fined for minor offences, and have the opportunity to challenge the fine by post, with a court appearance only necessary if their appeal is rejected and they still refuse to pay?
Unfortunately the nice car+black man excuse is just that an excuse. Sort of falls down when like a lot of my friends there on the way home from work wearing a suit and tie eh!
And most street dealers do as it sounds, on the streets not piling around with a drug filled boot, dealers are rarely caught as a result of stop search techniques. Here in Bristol the police get most of their info on drugs as a result of the community telling them due to good relations not harrassment.
Did you read what I wrote? :rolleyes:
Yes I did actually.
As I said earlier if the area is prodominently black then of course more black people will be stopped.
Its a bit sad that a policeman cannot do his job properly because if he stops a black person people like yourself automatically think *racism*. If a white person gets stopped they get stopped......so what ?
Uncle Joe, sorry but im a law abiding citizen, I didnt know you could challenge the fine by post. Ive never had dealings with the police for my behaviour etc, so in all honesty I have not got a clue how that part of the system works.
I still think that some people use the colour of their skin in a way to make the police appear racist, when in effect they were stopped because there was a genuine reason for it.
Black people get stopped when driving nice cars proportionally more than white people because they are black. When white people get stopped, its not because of the colour of their skin, its because there is a valid reason to stop them, more than the fact that they are driving a nice car.
Geddit now? :rolleyes:
Ok lets give a scenario.
Black man driving car along street, police car behind him, policeman in car cannot see what colour the person is until he is up his back end. Policeman suddenly see's black man/woman and thinks *hey black man/woman here, lets stop him*. Yeah ok.
and sorry but if you can give me no actual evidence of what does happen then its pointless debating this any further.