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Nice guys finish last. Why?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Ok. This question has been addressed briefly in one or two posts, but I think it deserves it's own topic.

Why is it that nice guys don't get the chances that they deserve?

Look at all the people on this site. They are all intelligent enough to address issues concerning them, mature enough to discuss their own and other people's emotions and lots of them really do care. Some of the more regular or older posters have a genuine for others. Why is that not appealing?

But nice guys rarely get a look in, do they? So, come on. I would like to hear opinions on this from guys and, more importantly, the girls. And, the moderators. Everyone. Come on, let's see if we can get some kind of answer!

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Simple answer:
    Life's a bitch. It's all about survival of the fittest, in an ideal world the tossers would be cast aside, but then all the police would be out of a job.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How is that survival of the fittest? Yes, I know life's a bitch, but surely there is enough decency to overcome? Am I being very naive?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DJP:
    <STRONG>How is that survival of the fittest? Yes, I know life's a bitch, but surely there is enough decency to overcome? Am I being very naive?</STRONG>

    Unfortunately you are being naive. In the end nice guys will come out trumps, we always do, but in the short term, tossers are on top.. dont ask me why, it's the way of the world. Something you've just got to live with.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont think I have ever been described as a nice guy so maybe I can shed some light on this.
    I think that it is as simple as excitment, a nice guy maybe caring and supportive but they lack the danger and are not going to risk everthing for a good time.
    having said that I dont think the nice guy does finish last, he will have it all one day, the family, the job ect, while people like me are stuck with estraged children and trips to the VD clinic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, nice guys finish last? Hence, by your rational, the 'not nice' guys come first. Be a 'not nice' guy... simple. Would you get a girlfriend if you were a 'not nice' guy? No, you would not. The real question here is, are you such a 'nice' guy anyway?

    Everybody believes themselves to be a 'nice' person, unless they're smack-head's who go around murdering old women.

    I think that I'm a nice guy. I am... right?

    But, really, how do you define 'nice'? So, you think you would treat a woman in a perfect manner? Would you respect her? In reality, you would probably be a bastard. Power corrupts and nobody is perfect. Even me.

    Plus, 'nice' guys are boring and do jig-saw puzzles. Women want a bit of a bastard, it keeps them on their toes and slightly entertained. Am i right or am I right?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kirk.

    The phrase "nice guys finish last" was intended to lead people in to the thread. I don't actually mean that they do, because no one counts where people finish, do they? It was a kind of figurative introduction.

    But, anyway. You asked, so I'll answer, if you like.

    I am who I am. I am not going to pretend to be someone who I am not, in order to get a girlfriend, or for anything else. That strikes me as stupid.

    How would I define nice? Good question. There are lots of people who would not think they're 'nice guys'. Someone posted in this thread saying exactly that.

    Yes, I do respect women. Yes, I talk to women, and listen to what they say. I treat them as people not women. The difference being that there is no sexual undertone in "people". It doesn't matter.

    In reality, I'm not a bastard. I'm sorry to disappoint you. Power corrupts? I'm not sure what that refers to, to be honest with you. Power of what? In a relationship, my girlfriend would be my equal. Where's the power in that?

    Nice guys are boring and do jigsaw puzzles. Hm. I think that you may be stereotyping a little bit, and unfairly. I would disagree. Yes, I may be classed as boring. This is true. And I am 18, and I do stay in, play chess, read, whatever. That's not boring to me. I enjoy having my mind tested. I enjoy a mental challenge. To me, a relationship is about developing a trust with someone up to the point at which you understand the way they think. Is that so boring? Is that so wrong?

    I am just presenting my opinion. There's no real truth on this, but I think you might not be right. I'd be interested to hear from others; are nice guys just too boring?

    I respect the opinion, Kirk. You probably are a nice guy, yourself, you know. But, hey, does it fit with your image of yourself?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I want to be a nice guy, but I know that I'm not perfect, but am I still a nice guy? Being a caring person might make you 'nice', but it is only a basis of a relationship. What I was trying to say was that if the 'bad' guys metaphorically finish first (not literally, I understand that) then don't be so damn nice. Am I making sense?

    Are you honestly saying that you are some completely 'nice' guy, and you could never be hurtful to a potential girlfriend. Nobody is perfect, not me and not you, so just how 'nice' must you be to be classed as a nice guy?

    Perhaps you are too nice, being perfect is flawed, it's not very interessting. Perhaps a person can be too nice? I don't know.

    I suggest that you are not as nice as you tend to think you are... you seem quite argumentitive for a start. Just because you think you're a great guy doesn't make it so... admit it.

    An example; When you had a girlfriend you would still be tempted and interessted in other women. You might not act on it, but it's human nature to think about it. Impure thoughts, do you have them? If so, are you still a perfectly 'nice' guy as from your girlfriends position? You may think you would be 'nice' always, but people have flaws and moods. Nobody is 'nice' 24/7.

    You say you are 'nice', well explain how you are nice and in which ways you feel that you are finishing 'last'. I need 'nice' to be defined.

    It appears that I cain't really explain myself clearly, so I appolagise... I'm hungover.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know I'm not perfect. I am relatively argumentative, lots of other things besides.

    I don't know that I am a nice guy. I've been told once or twice, and I like to think of myself as such. I know that doesn't make it happen (if only...) but still.

    FYI, I have had a relationship, but it ended. Now, I could have dragged it on, but, I suffered on my own, because I'd rather do that than hurt my ex- further. I care more about other people, friends, whatever, than I do for myself. I don't think about this; it's not a conscious decision to be 'nice'.

    As for the rest, well, I think you're probably right. I can't define 'nice' for you. I can't prove I am, and I know that I'm not perfect. Its not what I intended this to be, I hoped that maybe we'd get some opinions from girls if nice guys were, as you suggest, just too boring...

    Thanks for the input. Much appreciated by me, and made me think hard about what I've said.

    The problem then is; if it's not because I'm nice, then it's something else. And thats not a pleasant self-introspective kind of thought.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Agreed.

    Women are indeed mysterious magnificent creatures, their actions can never be fully explained to our simple minds, we can only go on doubting ourselves as they torment us. Damn them! Come on women, explain yourselves!

    It's probably best not to think too hard about why we aren't as successful as we feel we should be. I think that my problem is just pure laziness to aquire or maintain any long lasting relationship... I want one, but I just can't be arsed.

    I think that you should just sit back and wait. Something will happen when it's time. Theres no point getting worked up over trivial things, we're young. Let's just get pissed and enjoy it... I'll be 'nice' when I'm bored of having a good time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DJP:
    <STRONG>I am relatively argumentative, lots of other things besides.</STRONG>
    I think you should trot over to the politics forum and we can test your argumentativeness. We need someone in there to get the discussions going a bit. Start up a new topic if you like.

    As for the nice guys thing, I can see the point and to some extent I agree, but I'm not totally sure that nice guys actually do finish last. Do you really want to go out with a girl that finds a 'nasty' gy attractive? There are plenty of nice girls out there who are looking for a nice guy. Don't give up on life. Invite a nice girl over to play chess with you - they'll probably find it more fun than being stood up by a nasty guy.

    Good luck anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but isnt it the same for gals too? blokes, the majority of the time talk to a girl coz she's got a nice face, arse, figure, legs and its that which gets the whole thing going... so what happens if you're not stunning? bit buggered really.
    I just split with my boyf and the reasons we started going out was purely coz we had been great mates and i thought i knoew him well over the two years but when we started dating he seemed to change. he became arrogant and nasty and basically what you'd call a tosser. whether it was to bash my confidence and me make me stay with him or to make me inferior like i couldnt get anyone else but he could. it made me nervous and jealous and most of all unhappy. i was scared to split with him coz he knew so much about me that i thought he could ruin my life but i got the strength to do it through my friends. i would love and interesting, clever, devoted, sweet person to go out with and get to know but thats what i thought i had and i was DAMN wrong so i've sort of lost faith!! The thing is all the guys on these boards are LOVELY so why cant i meet someone like that off the board and in person? c'est la vie! <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aren't you a Cambridge girl, Tinkabee? Or am I being daft? (again)

    I think you should be able to find someone there, no?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes i am... but it doesnt make it any easier. i only spend holidays there and coz i move between college and home it makes things harder... or perhaps i'm just crap at relationships! there, thats a good answer!!!!!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Suppose so. The terms are incredibly short, and there's not really enough time to get to know people, or to duck work/lectures etc. and spend time with them.

    There is also the difficulty with university relationships; you go home. It's different then.

    Purely out of interest; studying what, and which College?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the main problem is that 'nice' people tend to be the shy, quiet, ones, whilst the tossers are the loud ones who get noticed. It works for both sexes, the nice blokes only see the bitches and the nice girls only see the bastards. So they end up with tossers, whilst the nice people wander round wondering why they cant pull.

    I have a feeling I didnt explain that very well, but as it IS 2am Ive got an excuse. As well as insomnia <IMG alt="image" SRC="frown.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit:
    <STRONG>I think the main problem is that 'nice' people tend to be the shy, quiet, ones, whilst the tossers are the loud ones who get noticed. It works for both sexes, the nice blokes only see the bitches and the nice girls only see the bastards. So they end up with tossers, whilst the nice people wander round wondering why they cant pull.

    I have a feeling I didnt explain that very well, but as it IS 2am Ive got an excuse. As well as insomnia <IMG alt="image" SRC="frown.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

    Actually that is a good point and made perfect sense, thanks!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the main problem is that 'nice' people tend to be the shy, quiet, ones, whilst the tossers are the loud ones who get noticed.

    Hang on a second here Kermit, thats not always the case, I mean, ok... I class myself as one of the good guys (as I'm sure we all do) and I'm loud and colourful..

    Having said that, using the UK as an example, I usually remained the single one (80% of the time) as I was always the one girls/boys turned too about their relationships, the sentimental type to talk to if they had a problem and was always there to help them out....

    Yet I'm the loudest and most over the top out of my friends but I still remain single as they would rather be my friend on a emotional basis than a relationship one... <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why do nice guys always finish last? Because nice guys always wait until she is finished first <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> (think about it)

    Seriously though, one reason is that its always easier to do things the bad or dishonest way.

    Its easier to produce cheap quality goods than better ones. Its easier to steal than to earn. Its easier to have no conscience than to wrestle with one.

    However, the good guys don't really finish last. Nice guys don't have to deceive themselves about who they are just so they can look at themselves in the mirror. Nice guys have dignity and self-respect.

    Sure, its almost impossible for a nice guy to ever become a 'Bill Gates' type of rich and powerful, but that's mostly because nice guys start giving to charity and friends long before they have that much more than they can ever really need.

    I don't need to finish first all the time just to prove I'm a worthwhile person. I know I am, and leave all that for those who honestly don't have any more depth to them than finishing first.

    I do okay, but I won't trample others just to climb above them. Instead I help others up first, and often find that a few will reach back down to pull me up in return. In the end, that's far more rewarding. Being at the top is lonely, while by lifting others with me, I always have company and friends. to me, that is real success.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am a nice guy, by this I mean that I can hold a conversation and am a caring kind of guy (ah), I would never intentionly really upset anybody I cared for. However, I am also a confident fun loving guy, I'm always getting people motivated for a 'large' night out and have a really good time. I'll admit that I'm not Brad Pitt, but I'm a fairly attractive guy... no hideous warts or grotesque obesity. I do alright for myself... but I don't think I get the relationships and respect that I want from women. Don't I deserve to be loved? I have plenty to offer, I have a lot of love to give! Jesus, I should be having lots of sex, but there is none! I'm wasting my sexual prime! It's just not fair! What is to become of me? Why, why, why? Has God forsaken me?

    Er... sorry, got a little carried away for a moment. <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0"> (p.s. All sympathy sex welcomed.)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    right...i want all you nice guys over my house...now!!! If there are so many of you why havent i met one yet. some one kind and caring that really wants to me with me, eh!? obviously...a little agression is good to!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Tinkabee:
    <STRONG>right...i want all you nice guys over my house...now!!! If there are so many of you why havent i met one yet. some one kind and caring that really wants to me with me, eh!? obviously...a little agression is good to!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

    Thats me exactly! Where do you live? <IMG alt="image" SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tinkabee... come to my gig!
    23rd Febuary at the Cambridge Union bar... starting at around 8:00...
    it's not too near the end of term for essay swamping.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i live in cambridge but go to sixth form near colchester.

    At the cambridge union bar? Sure... i'll be there!!!!!

    xxxx.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey! I think that all these nice guys out there just don't try hard enough. There's gurls out there that you will find one day. Your not supposed to date someone for their looks it's how they treat you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think in the short term, nice guys do lose out, it's just my opinion but girls upto the age of about 18-20 go for the daring, exciting total twat, who cares if he's cheated on his last three gfs? Girls think they can change him and mould him into this great guy who'll love them and respect them. The truth is that some guys out there will always treat women badly because they can, women (and again this is just an opinon to stir up a debate) value security and would rather be in what some people might view as a crap relationship than be single.
    In the long run, women realise that the guy they really want is someone who can show them a good time, be exciting without being a walking macho ego and ultimately give them the love, happiness and security that only a nice guy can.
    I do feel quite strongly about this, my ex (age 18) has just got back with her ex, who I know hit her (to the point where she suffered concussion), and already I've been told that it's happened again <IMG alt="image" SRC="frown.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="mad.gif" border="0">
    I hope that she comes to her senses, I've tried texting her just to ask generally how she is, but her ex sent me a msg back telling me to f**k off. It's a sad reflection on what girls are willing to put up with in a "relationship".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit:
    <STRONG>I think the main problem is that 'nice' people tend to be the shy, quiet, ones, whilst the tossers are the loud ones who get noticed. </STRONG>

    Its true! I'm a polite, well behaved guy but I'm also a bit shy and quiet (until I get drunk, then I turn into a loud-mouthed prima donna) so I don't exactly go out of my way to pull.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DJP:
    <STRONG>Ok. This question has been addressed briefly in one or two posts, but I think it deserves it's own topic.

    Why is it that nice guys don't get the chances that they deserve?

    Look at all the people on this site. They are all intelligent enough to address issues concerning them, mature enough to discuss their own and other people's emotions and lots of them really do care. Some of the more regular or older posters have a genuine for others. Why is that not appealing?

    But nice guys rarely get a look in, do they? So, come on. I would like to hear opinions on this from guys and, more importantly, the girls. And, the moderators. Everyone. Come on, let's see if we can get some kind of answer!</STRONG>


    Nice Guys do get a look-in, most of the girls I know purposely stay away from anyone with a loud-mouth or use a come back on the pick-up lines that most wankers use... I have faith that greenday were wrong
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ouch @ sweeping generalisations...c'mon people please don't rely so heavily on stereotypes!
    I realise I'm probably only speaking on my own behalf here, but my boyfriend is definately a "nice guy".

    And although I have the potential to be, I am not a bitch. Although I probably am the emotionally stronger one in the relationship, I don't think I treat him badly.

    I think it's because he appears quite outgoing and physically looks quite erm tough, but is quite sensitive in reality so we're a fairly equal balance, as I look [not my words] "short'n'sweet" but am actually emotionally stronger?
    Do I make sense or am I rambling again?
    <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">

    [ 10-02-2002: Message edited by: crazysexycool ]
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