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the patriot act ...

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends on how intent the resistance is. Ghandi and his people were attacked and many did sacrifice their lives to repression but in the end when the machinery doesnt turn, neither does the will of any oppressive master.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As far as I remember Thanatos' remarks about non-carriers being willing victims and sheep relate to crime, not war.

    I.e., I'm not a sheep because when muggers and killers come to harm me I can take my AK-47 out and cut them in two. Unlike you Europeans.

    Does not even merit an answer, really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent


    My comment was that it may become necessary in a Nation's history for the people to take up arms against an oppressor. The US has that capability because it's citizens have access to arms, the UK doesn't. That is what Thanatos is trying to get across. At least that is my understanding of what he is saying.

    And a tip of the Chivas Regal bottle of Royale Salute to the scholar and gentleman from Kent! :yes:

    We have witnessed what a wonderful example the civil disobediants had in diverting the course of Saddam Hussein, over the past decades.

    Civil disobediance works when used to encourage CIVIL governments, or rulers. Against the truly lawless? You might as well piss into the hurricane.

    You expect to win a golf tournement, if you show up at the first tee without a bag, and clubs? Having never even swung a club at a golf ball, before the day of the tournement? :lol:

    Yeah, it could happen. :rolleyes: Take another toke off that wacky tabaccy, and wank off to your delusions.

    Curious, isn't it? For those who have been around this forum long enough to remember, the singular person with whom I shared the most vehement and venomous rants of rhetoric? None other than MoK. How is it, then, that MoK would seem to find merit in the perspective of a "sworn philosophical enemy"? It would seem that he is not so awed within the genuflection to the image in his mirror, that he is able to view a thing from another perspective, even that in sharp contrast to his own.
    It is NOT that I have softened, nor mellowed with the passing of years, but that - as an intelligent individual - MoK has
    learned.

    My compliments, MoK, Sir! And my respect!

    And me? I am told there is none so prude as the reformed whore, and I was the unabashed whore of the left, when I was a child. Traveling out of my pampered, protected, and privieged existance, opened my eyes and ears to the fecal tsunami I had been drowning in... and I realized the nature of the cuisine I had been feasting upon, contentedly. :eek:
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    As far as I remember Thanatos' remarks about non-carriers being willing victims and sheep relate to crime, not war.

    Very short, very defective, and extremely selective memory you have, there... :lol:

    Forget the discussions of the Japanese refusal to invade the mainland US, because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"?

    Forget the tens of thousands of privately owned rifles which were donated by private US citizens, and then shipped to Brittain, to defend against a German invasion during WW2?

    MOST impressive! :lol:

    What you fail to comprehend is that the weapon is within the heart and mind, and the lump of iron and wood is simply a tool, like the golf club... and I have a club for every occaision. Whether it is to engage and dispatch a viable target from 800m, or to disengage in a Mad Minute.

    And I am but one of literally TENS of MILLIONS of experienced golfers in the US, waiting with their bag of clubs, for the tournement to begin, in earnest. :naughty:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Like I said, Vietnam took a terrible toll...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Like I said, Vietnam took a terrible toll...

    Which actually proves his point for him, in a way - even though you didn't mean it.

    What you had there was a well armed militia who stood up to their own Govt and two foreign invaders in the space of three decades.

    They were able to do this, not through practicing civil disobedience - let's face it those who tried were summarily shot - but because they had access to arms.

    If it is so easy for civil disobedience to win, the why are there any totalitarian states in existence?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Three if you include the Japanese during WW2. In that case they were assisted by the U.S. Post WW2, China.

    It's interesting to see the parallels emerging in Iraq.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Like I said, Vietnam took a terrible toll...

    ...upon stupidity. Reality has a way of doing that.

    You should make the attempt to pull your head out of the anotomically inappropriate orifice in which you have reposited it, and get an occaisional fresh breath of reality. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh yes, reality and delusion. Two of your favourite words. Reminds me of the pot, kettle, black analogy.

    Fact: Britain has just as much chance of being invaded as the US- and look! no weapons! How do we do it?

    Fact: If the US were to be invaded I'm pretty sure armoured divisions and bombers dropping 2000lb bombs would be little concerned by your peashooters. All the guns, pistols and rifles in the US together couldn't stop a single tank. As I'm sure any potential invader of the US couldn't give a flying toss about all your pretty weapons.

    Fact: You live in a delusional world where commies, baddies, criminals and murderers are lurking in the corners, ready to jump on you. We don't seem to have any of that here. Either we're very lucky (and very foolish to tempt luck like that!) or it is you who seems to live in a videogame world where death awaits in every corner.

    Which one do you think it is?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe
    And I am but one of literally TENS of MILLIONS of experienced golfers in the US, waiting with their bag of clubs, for the tournement to begin, in earnest. :naughty:
    you are of the same ilk as Mcvie ...and charlton heston then.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    you are of the same ilk as Mcvie ...and charlton heston then.

    Shame that you have to resolve to such crude comments.

    So I should start comparing you to Saddam since you hold a negative opinion of the US?
    Your remark was just as sensible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Shame that you have to resolve to such crude comments.

    So I should start comparing you to Saddam since you hold a negative opinion of the US?
    Your remark was just as sensible.
    i actualy love the american dream ...dream though it is. i see america as THE most dynamic country ever. exciting. it's possibilities seem almost endless. it could be the greatest force for good in the world ...far greater than any other nation but ...it has been hijacked by thugs and crooks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So shall I take it that you got my point, or that you're gonna go off on another point inspired by this statement?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    So shall I take it that you got my point, or that you're gonna go off on another point inspired by this statement?
    sorry you lost me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Obviously if you criticise the all too demonstrable beligerence and self righteous bravado of the US right wing, MR, you must be anti-American! :rolleyes:

    Obviously the right can sling all the mud it wants at the left but is itself incapable of any self examination without cries of national stereotyping and prejudice.

    How easily they overlook their own hypocrisy, but then such is the meat of willful ignorance and hubris.

    Of course when such typical right wing pundits find themselves the victim of fascist policies they have supported, then they scream like stuck pigs about the injustice of it all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    you are of the same ilk as Mcvie ...and charlton heston then.

    You display your ignorance.

    Timothy McVie targeted non-combatant civilians.

    Charlton Heston has the position that the public should not have access to "assault weapons".

    They are in no way of similar perspective.

    Too much of that wacky tabaccy, lately? :rolleyes:

    Or simply that anything outside of your bong is outside of your cognitive capability?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin


    Fact: If the US were to be invaded I'm pretty sure armoured divisions and bombers dropping 2000lb bombs would be little concerned by your peashooters. All the guns, pistols and rifles in the US together couldn't stop a single tank. As I'm sure any potential invader of the US couldn't give a flying toss about all your pretty weapons.

    Fact: THERE HAVE BEEN MORE CASUALTIES IN IRAQ AFTER GWB DECLARED THAT THE MAJOR BATTLES ARE OVER, THAN DURING THE ACTUAL INVASION AND CONQUEST...

    But then, that reality would be a rude and inconvenient tweak to your prejudice, would it not? :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine


    How easily they overlook their own hypocrisy, but then such is the meat of willful ignorance and hubris...

    Tell us again, how it is, that your political hero, Komrad Blowjob Klinton, on his knees sucking up to Arafat, and subsequently manipulating Israel into releasing Mohammed Atta - where he had been imprisoned for life - was working in the "best interest" of the nation which he took an oath to defend, against ALL enemies... :lol:

    Tell us again, how tucking tail and running from Mogadishu was setting a precident of touchie/feelie that brought the unabashed love of the world to the US...

    Tell us again, exactly how it is that self-righteous traitors as yourself - intent upon the crippling and destruction of the US, are really working in its best interest...

    As the philosophical spawn of the Whore of Hanoi, when the reckoning comes, best you keep your butt on THAT side of the Atlantic, because your kind will be a target of opportunity, on THIS side. Collaborators have an extremely short life expectancy.
    Were it not for your ilk in power in the US government, there were MANY volunteers within the US military, who would have taken the hike across the DMZ to say "hello" and carry on a "dialogue" with the whore who was posing with the same artillery which was killing the Marines I was responsible for, in Quang Tri.

    Your kind is the sworn enemy of those who have taken an oath to defend this nation: best you do NOT forget that. Be assured, WE will NOT.

    I do not know - or care - whether it is your incredible ignorance, or simply your willful stupidity which compels you to betray this nation, but simply observe what you ache to bring to fruition.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thumbs Down again Roll

    they are waking up to the point where the impeachment of bush is becoming more of a reality.


    Again, a superficial understanding of politics in the United States is confirmed by inaccurate statements.

    First, the Patriot Act was enacted overwhelming by BOTH Houses of Congress. (That would be the House of Representatives and the Senate, both Republican, Democrats and Independents.)

    Secondly, how would the Patriot Act cause the Congress to bring impeachment proceedings again the President? He signed the bill in to law, he did not draft it.:confused:

    Third, to be impeached some type of crime must be committed by the sitting President. Do you know something the American people do not?

    I didn't think so.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    More facts for the ill informed

    Right or wrong this is how Americans feel about OUR President.


    Gallup Poll


    Just for the record, NO sitting US President has ever been defeated with approval ratings above 50%.



    :cool:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Thumbs Down again Roll
    Originally posted by Bandito
    they are waking up to the point where the impeachment of bush is becoming more of a reality.


    Again, a superficial understanding of politics in the United States is confirmed by inaccurate statements.

    First, the Patriot Act was enacted overwhelming by BOTH Houses of Congress. (That would be the House of Representatives and the Senate, both Republican, Democrats and Independents.)

    Secondly, how would the Patriot Act cause the Congress to bring impeachment proceedings again the President? He signed the bill in to law, he did not draft it.:confused:

    Third, to be impeached some type of crime must be committed by the sitting President. Do you know something the American people do not?

    I didn't think so.......
    if you look closely at my post i'm qouting the bbc. so many americans are becoming outraged by bush's ilegal invasion of iraq under false pretences, the giving out of rebuilding contracts to his best mates etc is the bit where americans are using the word impeachment. yes i do believe that on this side of the atlantic we get more information than the american public. you do not live in the land of the free. anyone in the holywood limelight who speaks out simply doesn't get work anymore ...is that freedom. bush ordered that an anti war song by some top american artist not be given air time in america ...thats not freedom. weren't you taught in school that only the evil empire of russia behaved like that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe
    You display your ignorance.

    Timothy McVie targeted non-combatant civilians.

    Charlton Heston has the position that the public should not have access to "assault weapons".

    They are in no way of similar perspective.

    Too much of that wacky tabaccy, lately? :rolleyes:

    Or simply that anything outside of your bong is outside of your cognitive capability?
    globe i aint claiming to be right about this ...i'm asking. a lot of people over here are under the impression that heston fights for the right for the citezens to own any weaponry they want. if i'm wrong i can handle that.
    why do you have to mention bongs and weed every time you reply to me? you believe i'm some drugged wreck?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bandito, your inattentiveness and reliance on the Bush spin machine are showing. Truth is that like myself, a far greater percentage of the American public are waking up to Bush's failures and despite a continuing approval of the war, even that will lose ground as the real investigation into the lies used to justified it is launched by Congress.

    Exerpt:

    Voters rate only President Bush's performance in the war on terrorism positively, 59% - 40%. Opinion is split on foreign policy, 49% positive compared to 50% negative. His performance on health care is rated 36% positive, 61% negative; the environment, 31% positive, 65% negative; taxes, 45% positive, 54% negative; and jobs and the economy, 33% positive, 66% negative.

    For the first time, more likely voters (47%) say it's time for someone new in the White House, compared to 46% who said the President deserves to be re-elected.

    http://truthout.org/docs_03/072003E.shtml

    Indeed the cloak of lies and coverups that has been shielding the public from the truth of this band of corrupt nation-ruining cronies is fraying and will soon enough be stripped away leaving the jester with little upon which to mount any credible re-election bid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe
    Fact: THERE HAVE BEEN MORE CASUALTIES IN IRAQ AFTER GWB DECLARED THAT THE MAJOR BATTLES ARE OVER, THAN DURING THE ACTUAL INVASION AND CONQUEST...
    So?

    Putting aside the fact that a majority of casualties are victims of explosives or RPGs- which you conveniently ignore- is this guerrilla going to repel the invader and put Saddam's people back into power?

    Do you really think that if someone decided to attempt an invasion of the US they would be much concerned by a few cowboys and their rifles?

    Yep, that's it. Somehow manage to defeat the biggest army in the world, wipe out its air force and its armoured divisions and avoid nuclear retaliation only to fall at the last hurdle and be defeated by the trailer park brigade. Damn!

    :lol::lol::lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    only to fall at the last hurdle and be defeated by the trailer park brigade. Damn!

    Who of course would be shooting at the occupying forces much as Iraqis are justifiably doing to our forces illegally occupying their land, all whilst justifying themselves as rightful defenders against foreign invasion and simultaneously calling Iraqis terrorists for doing the same.

    Right wing hypocrisy is so transparent its laughable! :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine


    Right wing hypocrisy is so transparent its laughable! :lol:

    How do you expect that anyone should take you seriously, with statements like that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But there is nothing wrong with that statement.

    Right wingers defend their right to arm themselves with weapons... and yet believe they have the right to stop others from arming themselves, by force if necessary.

    Right wingers proudly announce how they would fight and repel any invaders if they came... and yet are happy to call those who did just that in Afghanistan and Iraq "terrorists", and to send them to an illegal prison without charge for years.

    Can you get any more hypocrite than that???
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Should I really start pointing out step by step the differences in our society to the ones the Iraqis and Afghanis inhabited?

    Shall I start with a simple word as choice?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you expect that anyone should take you seriously, with statements like that?

    Apart from a minority of intellectually challenged militant neo-con right wingers who have hijacked US politics and have systematically undermined every founding principle as well as the international integrity of my nation, most indivduals with any capacity for critical thought already do take such statements very seriously.

    The rest can continue to walk around with their blinders firmly in place for all I care, the lies they continue to subscribe to and their refusal to recognise how greatly they, like the rest of us, were deceived and lied to repeatedly, removes any credibility from their worn out claims and verbal assaults.

    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Should I really start pointing out step by step the differences in our society to the ones the Iraqis and Afghanis inhabited?

    Shall I start with a simple word as choice?

    Well you go right ahead and point out the now completely irrelevant supposed differences between the domestic societies of nations such as the US and UK and those of the countries which the US and UK have illegally conquered (and now control), supposedly in the name of democracy and freedom (aka "choice") whilst actually dictating who in fact can and cannot take part in any self determination or governance of their native lands.

    Then perhaps youll dazzle us with a full apologetic justifying how typical right wing hypocrits can legitimately spout on about how they would grab up their hordes of firearms and fight off any invaders whilst decrying as terrorists any other nation's citizens which do that very thing!

    In the end youll only demonstrate further how hypocritical and untenable and myopic the right wing argument is.

    Give it up jacq. As I said before, those whose champions include such types as Anne Coulter have no intellectual leg to stand on whatsoever and merely show themselves as bigoted hateful authoritarians with no place in governance, either at home or abroad!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clandestine, maybe you should give it up? Your generalisations and assumptions are incredibly stupid, and do not tell anything about right-wingers, people who carry firearms, or right-wingers who carry firearms, but more about the person who made them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hmmm nice opinion there Jacq (hardly surprising of course) but I dont see any credible argumentation to support your assertion.

    The right wingers have buried themselves with their systematically revealed hypocrisies and lies on the national and domestic stages. There discreditation is of their own doing.

    On the other hand, those of us who have opposed the neo-con "attack the world mentality" from the start have been vindicated time and again by systematic revelations which you obviously must either ignore or choose to dismiss.

    Maybe you should try taking a teaspoon of sugar to help you swallow the truth!
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