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the patriot act ...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
just watching now on bbc 24 ...the american people are actualy starting to get frightened by it ...they are waking up to the point where the impeachment of bush is becoming more of a reality.
the scary bit is they are that powerful now that there may well be no turning back but more turning of the screw where ...becuase of real or imaginary threats ...free elections may have to be suspended in the good ol usa ...
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: the patriot act ...
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    just watching now on bbc 24 ...

    I saw that too.

    It's Patriot Act 2 which should be a bigger worry for them...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its internment, and not just for those dirty forgein people anymore, for good old honest and true christian americans. It will pass because people feel they need it. A strong leader for dangerous times. Americans see themselves at war, they are under threat, there are people willing to kill themselves to kill americans and they just dont understand why, and dont really want to understand. They just want to protect themselves, because they are 'right'.

    Its not like we're any different. We've already got internment for non-nationals and we'll have the same law for nationals here soon.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There might yet be a day when we are required to go in and restore democracy in the US.

    Unconceivable as it might have sounded in the past, the concept of a dictatorship in the US doesn't seem that far-fetched now. If the Republicans were to be trailing behind the Democrats badly and it became clear they had no hope of winning the next election it wouldn't surprise me much if there were to be a terrorist attack or scare and good old Dubya suspended elections until further notice.

    At the end of the day, a man who claims God talks to him and advises him on foreign policy must also believe the Lord Almighty wants him as President and no-one else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    There might yet be a day when we are required to go in and restore democracy in the US...

    *Rolling on the floor, laughing my fukking ASS off!!!*

    As I recall...

    It ain't THIS country who has willing dis-armed itself, pulling down its pants, bending over, and bleating "We TRUST the government to keep us safe!"

    When the government of the United States requires overthrowing? We will do it ourselves. And we will not be requiring the assistance of sheep, to accomplish the task.

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well well, the eternally self-deluded right wing maniac crawls out from under his rock to demonstrate once again his long discredited political ranting.
    And we will not be requiring the assistance of sheep, to accomplish the task

    Then I suppose you wouldnt be involved, after all it is by now well understood around the planet that the only sheep in the US are those heel-licking unquestioning Bush sycophants who vociferously defended a lying, treasonous, corrupt administration and its fabricated excuses for imperialistic conquests.

    But then since the Constitution and its guaranteed civil rights and protections mean nothing to you or those like you, It's hardly surprising that you wouldnt recognise your political heros are the real threat to our national security and way of life.

    Be a good little shortsighted Republican and crawl back under your rock. Oh and dont forget your duct tape and plastic wrap, there are terrorists around every corner! :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well well the man who doesn't go anywhere without his trusty AK-47 just in case Charlie is lurking round the corner as one goes to do the grocery shopping is back! How is it going Thanatos?

    Instead of debating how much of a hard job would the rest of the world have in imposing regime change in US soil (I mean, all those guns, we don't have a chance, right?) perhaps you would like to offer us your opinion on the anti-democratic legislation and fascist tactics Dubya and his Republican chums keep passing.

    You should be concerned. One day is people of Arabic origin, the next day is trailer park gun fanatics who will be locked up without trial accused of "terrorism". No one is safe in the “land of the free” (sic) ... and all thanks to your heroes the Republicans.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :lol:

    Your political hero - the Kowardly Komrad Klinton - left a bit of a mess, didn't he? Requires a bit of extreme work to clean the stains he left, don't it?

    Found new employment, since Saddam has left office, collaborator?

    :lol:

    Never was one for duct tape and plastic... I prefer a more pro-active plan, myself. Bring along your Palestinian apologist, and come visit, sometime. I got a game you can play... :naughty:

    I need to read Animal Farm, again. Cannot quite remember if you two are the bleating sheep, or the clucking chickens. Perhaps just the pigs... ;)

    Yeah, right... a sheep that fights back, even hunts down...

    Y'all need ta get back to your handler, and get the script straight. :rolleyes:

    In the meantime... anytime you feel brave enough to attack and invade this country, well... take your best shot...

    OOPS! :o You are the ones WITHOUT the guns, right? :rolleyes:

    The comedy of thise place is just too much! Let us see, which is the missing of The Three Stooges...???
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep there's the beligerent and completely out of touch nonsense of the mindless American right. Nice to know that its a rapidly shrinking group of non-thinking gun toting automotons with zero concept of anything outside their trailer park circle.

    We wont need an invasion to sort out the problems left by your corrupt and trigger happy mentor, but no doubt after we oust this regime and clean up the mess thats been created in three short years, perhaps we will have leaders who dont have to bankrupt the nation to line the pockets of their MIC buddies as well as their own bank accounts.

    Youre brazen to raise your head above the political parapet now that your ilk have been exposed as liars and tyrannical authoritarian perpetrators of human rights abuses.

    But of course, your fox news doesnt keep you informed of actual world events so you probably haven't noticed the continual revelations that have made a mockery of all your ilk's bogus claims for months now.

    Don't let us disturb you from your Anne Coulter hate-mongering, unquestioning, flag waving indoctrination tapes, wouldn't want to interrupt the making of a mindless sycophant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe
    Your political hero - the Kowardly Komrad Klinton - left a bit of a mess, didn't he? Requires a bit of extreme work to clean the stains he left, don't it?

    Who's political hero? Clinton was a right winger you fool. Just a little less right than the current loon in power, Bush.

    Not very bright are you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta, you have to understand that globe is representative of the neocon iron fist crew who presumes he understands what constitutes a mess for our nation whilst ignoring simple facts such as the 280 billion dollar budget surplus which Clinton restored (as promised) from over 12 years of Reagan & Bush Sr. warmongering deficit spending has successfully been blown to the tune of a 500 billion dollar deficit with intentions to push it higher.

    Of course that's just to name one such glaring Dubyah achievement (of many) within 3 short years.

    So anyone who suggests that Clinton was better for the nation is some warped Bohemia communist to this fox news drone.

    Trust me, just shout at him and smile at his desperate evasion of having to admit he swallowed the propaganda like a good sheeple and waved his flag in support of perhaps the most corrupt and treasonous, self serving elitest government of the past 50 years (if not since our nation's inception)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clandestine, no need to state assumption, when you don't know facts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And what facts would those be Jacq? I have quite a good many facts. You'll have to be more specific.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personal facts about the poster? :chin:
    Now that is intersting. Mind to share? :yeees:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps youve forgotten but Globe was with us for some time, even long preceeding your arrival and if youve forgotten all his clearly set out positions on things and who he claimed to be just go back and reread his history. He's had many incarnations but always the same rabid willfully ignorant nonsense and now he's been turned into a joke by the exposure of all the lies of those he worships.

    He's lived up to the absolute image of the now shrinking rabid band of right wing nuts who are demonstrably ruining my country's credibility, trust and respect in the world.

    So it see no reason to believe he is anything or anyone other than he has shown himself to be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thanks guys ...i have just laughed my way through all the posts in this thread.

    recently some research suggested that being right wing is a sign of being mentaly unbalanced ...then along comes globe. i'm missing pissinthepot now ...how come ...before iraq, most of us were saying there were no WMD'S ...bush is a crook and a liar becuase ...this that and the other will happen/is happening and it all came true ...the likes of globe still think the centrists and lefties are wrong ...how do you do that globe and the rest of you?
    i can understand your ignorance and hope at the begining but with all that has come to pass and the way things are unfolding ...
    how can you not fucking see!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This type is like the Borg, MR. Theyve been assimilated and think that everyone wants to be assimilated. They love power and fear over freedom and respect.

    But then its the image of the schoolyard bully. Such types never were too bright in my experience.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clandestine, you give yourself too much credit.

    Btw, MR care to show me some links to the research you're talking about?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Clandestine, you give yourself too much credit.

    Btw, MR care to show me some links to the research you're talking about?
    no sorry jacq but i'm sure one of us posted something in this very forum about it ...it was only published recently ...within the last month if i remember rightly.
    anyone help out here ...probably only within the last fortnight ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The original thread with that article was posted 2 weeks ago. Here's a link to the report itself:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1017505,00.html

    As for Thanatos here, I do hope he sticks around more often in general as his posts never cease to amuse me. Especially his claims that those of us who don't carry weapons are "willing victims" and "sheep".

    Oh, and anyone who ever dares to criticise the Republican Party is forever a traitor. :lol:

    But my favourite is his frequent use of the word delusional when he's talking about us bleeding heart "liberals". Delusional. Coming from the man who doesn't dare, by his own admission, to leave home without weapons and who happily carries an AK-47 assault rifle in his truck. As if he was trapped in an Atari-created videogame world were villains and commies came out of every corner to kill you as you go down to the store to get the paper.

    And so he continues to elude the debate in hand and prefers to look the other way while the most dangerous US government in history continues to pass anti-democratic legislation and to further erode personal freedom- something I thought proud Americans valued above everything else. Nah... Much better to pick imaginary fights and dream of scenarios where the brave Americans (not Democrats naturally) take to the streets and repel the evil would-be invaders from Europe single-handed.

    Vietnam certainly took its tragic toll…
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    THE MYTH OF "McCarthyism" is the greatest Orwellian fraud of our times. Liberals are fanatical liars, then as now. The portrayal of Sen. Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren't hiding under the bed during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation's ability to defend itself, while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy's name. Liberals denounced McCarthy because they were afraid of getting caught, so they fought back like animals to hide their own collaboration with a regime as evil as the Nazis. As Whittaker Chambers said: "Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does."

    At the time, half the country realized liberals were lying. But after a half century of liberal myth-making, even the disgorging of Soviet and American archives half a century later could not overcome their lies. In 1995, the U.S. government released its cache of Soviet cables that had been decoded during the Cold War in a top-secret undertaking known as the Venona Project. The cables proved the overwhelming truth of McCarthy's charges. Naturally, therefore, the release of decrypted Soviet cables was barely mentioned by the New York Times. It might have detracted from stories of proud and unbowed victims of "McCarthyism." They were not so innocent after all, it turns out.

    Soviet spies in the government were not a figment of right-wing imaginations. McCarthy was not tilting at windmills. He was tilting at an authentic communist conspiracy that had been laughed off by the Democratic Party. The Democrats had unpardonably connived with the greatest evil of the 20th century. This could not be nullified. But liberals could at least hope to redeem the Democratic Party by dedicating themselves to rewriting history and blackening reputations. This is what liberals had done repeatedly throughout the Cold War. At every strategic moment this century, liberals would wage a campaign of horrendous lies and disinformation simply to dull the discovery the American people had made. They had gotten good at it.

    There were, admittedly, a few rare and striking exceptions to the left's overall obtuseness to communist totalitarianism. John F. Kennedy's pronouncements on communism could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy. For all his flaws, Truman unquestionably loved his country. He was a completely different breed from today's Democrats. Through the years, there were various epiphanic moments creating yet more anti-communist Democrats. The Stalin-Hitler pact, Alger Hiss' prothonotary warbler, information about the purges and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago" – all these had their effect.

    But after World War II, the Democratic Party suffered a form of what France had succumbed to after World War I. The entire party had lost its nerve for sacrifice, heroism and bravery. Beginning in the '50s, there was a real battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. By the late '60s, the battle was over. The anti-communist Democrats had lost.

    In 1972, George McGovern, darling of left-wing radicals, was the Democratic presidential candidate. Tom Hayden, leader of Students for a Democratic Society and an instigator of the Chicago riots, became a Democratic state senator in California. (In 1968, Staughton Lynd wrote of Tom Hayden: "On Monday, Wednesday and Friday he was a National Liberation Front guerilla, and on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, he ... was on the left wing of the Democratic Party.") Black Panther Bobby Rush would go on to become a Democratic congressman. Todd Gitlin, a former president of SDS, would soon be a frequent op-ed columnist for the New York Times. By the time of the 1991 Gulf War, only 10 Senate Democrats voted with President Bush to use troops against Saddam Hussein. If the old Democratic Party was merely obtuse, the new Democratic Party was a beachhead of domestic anti-Americanism. This was the new Democratic Party.

    Clinton was the left's last best hope for proving they could too handle the presidency. Having tricked the American people into entrusting a Democrat with the White House (on a plurality vote), they had to defend him from any lie, any felony, any reprehensible, contemptible conduct he threw their way. When Clinton first showed his fat oleaginous mug to the nation, the Republicans screamed he was a draft-dodging, pot-smoking flim-flam artist. Had the Republicans turned out to be right again, it would have sounded the death knell for the Democratic Party.

    So the Democrats lied. Through their infernal politics of personal destruction, liberals stayed in the game for a few more years.

    Unless we fight for proper treatment of history and counter the nonsense images of McCarthy, no history can be safe from the liberal noise machine. Someday, school children will be taught that all of America cringed with terror at Ken Starr, whose evil designs on the nation were frustrated only through the sacrifice of brave liberals. People will have vivid images of the pounding boots of Starr's subpoena-servers and the Gestapo-like wails of alarms as Ken Starr arrived to kick in the doors of innocent Americans and storm through their bedrooms. It will be the Reign of Terror under Ken Starr.

    Bill Clinton will be revered in high school history books as the George Washington of his day who, along with patriots Larry Flynt and James Carville, "saved the Constitution." He will be honored with a memorial larger than the Washington Monument (though probably with the same general design).

    People will believe that. And liberals will continue unabashedly invoking a lie in order to shield their ongoing traitorous behavior.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    globe ...do you by any chance sympathise with Mcvie and his oklahoma terrorist attack? serious question.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    ...do you by any chance sympathise with Mcvie and his oklahoma terrorist attack?

    Negative.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe
    Negative.
    no would have been fine.
    surely globe this guy was on the same side as you in his beliefs?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll

    surely globe this guy was on the same side as you in his beliefs?

    Closer to the clandestine-collaborator, would be more accurate.

    McVie was attacking the lawful government of the United States, not defending it.

    And before the collaborator chortles at "lawful", perhaps the oh-so-educated-one might explain the Electoral College to you... ;)

    And, to the end of your edification, there were both a Democrat and a Republican in the office of POTUS, while I was serving in the Marine Corps, and my duty was to defend the Constitution of the United States, not a president, nor his political party.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rolling on floor laughing MY ass off!

    The man plays tin soldier and thinks it was to defend the Constitution! lol. Tell that to the men and women serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. No threat to the Constitution there thanatos, or perhaps you think that Al Qaeda can galvanise 2/3 of the states to ratify amendment or complete redrafting of the document.

    No MR, we've long known that globe/thanatos is every bit the sort shown in Bowling for Columbine. The sort of yahoo gun toting paranoid maniac who thinks what the Bush admin has been systematically putting in place is for his protection as the "McCarthy" myth he subscribes to above.

    Now there is surefire evidence of the revisionist delusion this IQ challenged sod is suffering from!

    He also confuses the Electoral College with the US supreme court! lol.

    If youre looking for Collusionists with anything or anyone, you need look no further than your own mirror! Oops, take care, your bedsheet is on backwards!

    As for the all-too-expected Anne Coulter flatulance above (looks like those indoctrination tapes have done their job swimmingly)...

    http://writ.news.findlaw.com/books/reviews/20030808_zaid.html
    Excerpt:

    It is hard to say what is scarier, the text within Coulter's book or that those in the United States are actually buying and reading it as a serious work. Ironically,
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe
    When the government of the United States requires overthrowing? We will do it ourselves. And we will not be requiring the assistance of sheep, to accomplish the task.

    Problem is Thanatos that too many of your countrymen fail to see when that the moment is nigh.

    If PA2 gets passed the US will have moved that step too far down the totalitarian road IMHO.
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Especially his claims that those of us who don't carry weapons are "willing victims" and "sheep".

    Cutting through the usual rhetoric when you, Clandestine and Globe go on the offensive I'm just going to cover this point.

    I think you'll find that his position is more a case of those of us who are unwilling to take up arms in defence of thier position are the one who usually end up being oppressed.

    This would apply as much to defending yourself militarily from an aggressive totalitarian US as it would from any other dictator.

    His argument would be proven by the fact that US Citizen could in theory do this (with their access to arms) whereas you and I could do very little over here, if our Govt turned into The Empire...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seems i recall a certain British Empire which was historically ousted from India by quite a substantial portion of the population which refused to take up arms.

    Not tha im an absolute pacifist, but the typical braindead cowboy argument that one must wreak death and destruction to achieve one's security ends is utter nonsense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Seems i recall a certain British Empire which was historically ousted from India by quite a substantial portion of the population which refused to take up arms.

    And I recall a French one which wasn't, so your point is?

    The point which you have so conveniently missed is that the British chose to walk away. Now, what if they had gone the other way and become even more oppressive than they already were? What would/could Gandhi done then?

    NB I'm not even going to start to get into the lines of supply argument about the UK/ India...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My point is precisely to respond to your assertion that only violence can end oppression. That has been shown to be patently untrue by documented history.

    Civil disobedience, boycotts and other means of shutting down society can effectively inhibit any regime from advancing its consolidation of power.

    The loses to society may be considerable, but then so are losses in war, one way or another as we have seen repeatedly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    My point is precisely to respond to your assertion that only violence can end oppression. That has been shown to be patently untrue by documented history.

    That was never my assertion.

    My comment was that it may become necessary in a Nation's history for the people to take up arms against an oppressor. The US has that capability because it's citizens have access to arms, the UK doesn't. That is what Thanatos is trying to get across. At least that is my understanding of what he is saying.

    I never suggested that this was the only solution.

    As I said, if the British had chosen to enforce their will, then Gandhi would have been dead a lot sooner. Also, I think that the effect of WW2 shouldn't be underestimated in the "success" of India/Pakistan's independence...
    Civil disobedience, boycotts and other means of shutting down society can effectively inhibit any regime from advancing its consolidation of power.

    Guns, bullets, tanks and aircraft can inhibit civil disobedience though.
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