if your going to heaven ...

Former Member

Originally posted by Skateside
And kevlar85, the Christian would have to be truely sorry and mean it, but it's one of the good point of Christianity in my belief:
no matter how much it looks like you've screwed it up, God will always forgive you if you're sorry

So a Christian who had done the most heinous crimes imaginable like mass murder for example, on his deathbed could then with the fear of impending death repent for what he did yet a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddist or whatever who had spent their whole lives doing good deeds would still go to hell?

Former Member

hey i've just been invited to a barby in hell! is that cool or what?
how come the devil always has the best music?

Former Member

I believe in re-incarnation actually.

Former Member

Originally posted by MoonRat
I believe in re-incarnation actually.

i don't believe in it and i didn't in my last life ...

Former Member

I think I will be floating around on a cloud, playing my harp forevermore...

Former Member

Originally posted by Skateside
I still don't get it.

I mean, why would you want to go and be with someone you don't believe exists?

The Bible doesn't give an thorough description of heaven. That why I said it could be what you make of it.

Former Member

Originally posted by Clandestine
I wish i hadnt let my biblical hebrew go rusty, i was one of the best students in translation. Kinda miss my concordances and such.

Ah well, along came politics and carried me away...

Jewish or Orthodox?

Former Member

im neither but one of my two majors was theological studies and my concentration in that discipline was heading toward ancient and semitic languages.

Former Member

Originally posted by monocrat
Why not? Why should it be written in stone that 'belief in God' is necessary?

Um... because it's what the Bible says.

Originally posted by Morrocon Roll
i don't believe in it and i didn't in my last life ...

I do... and karma. I don't like the heaven and hell idea because I feel it's used to enforce social control. Karma suits me better because it basically means that if you play nice, nice stuff happens instead of "believe this or shag her and you go to hell"...

Former Member

But my statement was based on a liberal Chrsitian viewpoint. Only a conservative Chrisitan would cite the Bible as the absolute word of God.

Former Member

I've never heard of the church of 'liberal christianity' or 'conservative christianity'. Does it even exist? Got a website to prove it?

Christianity is all about God and the life of Christ and you have to believe in God to get in to heaven. Which is why they pester people in town trying to convert them, why they ask if you want to be 'saved'.

Former Member

Originally posted by MoonRat
Um... because it's what the Bible says.



I do... and karma. I don't like the heaven and hell idea because I feel it's used to enforce social control. Karma suits me better because it basically means that if you play nice, nice stuff happens instead of "believe this or shag her and you go to hell"...

the trouble with this kind of thinking is your religous spiritual beliefs are based on supermarket shopping. "ooo , that looks like a bargain ...i like the look of this ...i'm having none of that" wheres the truth in it? wheres the wisdom and guidance? where is the protection from your foolish human choices and desires?
i don't like that bit ...the bit you don't like might just be the truth.
surely religion is about conviction and comitment ...where some of the rules are NOT ...to your liking and choosing.

Former Member

Originally posted by MoonRat
and you have to believe in God to get in to heaven.

I've never thought that. I always assumed that if Christianity is the religion then God would accept you into Heaven regardless of whether you are a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddist or if you do not believe in a God or religion at all. I think its all to do with how you've lived your life, people who have lived 'good' lives will have eternal paradise & people who haven't, wont.

It's hard to explain what i mean By 'good' life, i don't mean people who've never broken a single law. I think it means people who have never intentionally harmed anyone & just made the best & done the best they can with what they had.

As for people saying sorry on their deathbed in the hopes of getting to Heaven i think they have to genuinely mean it. To me there is a difference between saying sorry because you are afraid of the consequences if you don't & saying sorry and actually meaning it. I think you have to mean it to get into Heaven.

Anyways that is just my opinion.

Former Member

Originally posted by Stephie
I've never thought that. I always assumed that if Christianity is the religion then God would accept you into Heaven regardless of whether you are a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddist or if you do not believe in a God or religion at all. I think its all to do with how you've lived your life, people who have lived 'good' lives will have eternal paradise & people who haven't, wont.

It's hard to explain what i mean By 'good' life, i don't mean people who've never broken a single law. I think it means people who have never intentionally harmed anyone & just made the best & done the best they can with what they had.

As for people saying sorry on their deathbed in the hopes of getting to Heaven i think they have to genuinely mean it. To me there is a difference between saying sorry because you are afraid of the consequences if you don't & saying sorry and actually meaning it. I think you have to mean it to get into Heaven.

Anyways that is just my opinion.

if you walk around very old grave yards and read some of the inscritions and dedications and qouted scriptures you will find that before the 20th century ...it is more based on what the bible says and not what the churches today teach. there was very little ...apart from the catholic view which has very little semblance of biblical teaching ...the view that no one had gone to heaven but were waiting for the great day of resurection to the earth ...the meek will inherit the earth ...not heaven.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
the trouble with this kind of thinking is your religous spiritual beliefs are based on supermarket shopping. "ooo , that looks like a bargain ...i like the look of this ...i'm having none of that" wheres the truth in it? wheres the wisdom and guidance? where is the protection from your foolish human choices and desires?
i don't like that bit ...the bit you don't like might just be the truth.
surely religion is about conviction and comitment ...where some of the rules are NOT ...to your liking and choosing.

I don't have a religion, it's really a path of beliefs and I see Karma like this...

Every thing you do has a consequence, whether it's positive or negative, and your actions should always be in the right mind and in good will. For example, you throw a stone in a pond of still water and it causes ripples... well your thoughts and actions also cause ripples in what I see as... well, a cosmic universe type thing. Do good and good will happen to you. Always do what feels right to you.

I don't see any real conviction in it and as for re-incarnation, I'd never go as far as that football manager who said that paraplegic kids are in wheelchairs because of sins in a past life. At the same time I don't believe in sin, but lessons taught by our actions when we fuck up. So foolish human choices... well they're just life and we learn from our mistakes.

I'm pagan, well I've said that before but I'll shove it in this thread anyway... and I believe a lot of teachings from Druidism, for example respect for everything, continious life and to revere nature.

Um... I don't quite get the 'supermarket shopping bit', but I'm not one of those overweight Buddhists who goes to yoga and who watches Living TV all day. I'm just a young woman who follows pagan beliefs eclectically, sure I believe in Karma but speaking of the Celts/Druids/Goddess religion it's called the 'Law of the Returning Tide'. However, Karma's easier to say.