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Patriotism

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
What in your opinion is patriotism? Do you think it has been ruined by the left or right( the PC brigade or the BNP). To British Blacks/Asian/any other immigrants of any kind, are you patriotic towards the country you originally come from, or to Britain because you have been here all your life? To British whites, do you feel you can be traditionally patriotic, or do you fear offending non-whites/English.

I dont feel any. I think it is just a country, and you live there. I think I am more British than I am Ghanaian, because I have never lived in Ghana. I'd hate to be sent to live in Ghana, simply because its a crappy place to live.

In the athletics, a Ghanaian runner, Kofi/Kwame/somethingequallyGhanaian Nkansah was racing Dwain Chambers in the 100m. My parents had been supporting Chambers all the way, until he faced Nkansah. Then my parents went all Ghanain and started supporting Nkansah and chanting "Ghana".

My mum was almost angry that I wasnt supporting him, but I owed him nothing, he is running for himself not for his country, and this is why athletes often change nationality. A Kenyan now runs for Qatar, because the Qatarian government promised to give him $1000 for the rest of his life if he ran for them. The Kenyans were angry, seeing him as some kind of traitor, but some people just arent patriotic, and no one should have to be.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't value patriotism to a great degree.

    One of the greatest diseases affecting this planet, possibly the worst of all, is the "my country, right or wrong" mentality.

    I'm not more "proud" of my nationality that I am of being left-handed. Sure, I like my country of birth and I will support it and my people in sporting events and in other issues. But I will not offer blind support when I believe my country is in the wrong, be at government or people level.

    It's a good thing to be happy about of the good things your country has to offer- so long as you are prepared to see and admit to the bad things as well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm patriotic, hence my icon. If I wave a flag, I am not saying, I'm white, sod everyone else, I think that the British flag represents the whole of multicultural Britain.
    I think the PC Brigade make you feel ashamed & a racist to be proud of your country.
    They seem to think that the only patriotic people are racist White Englishman. What they don't realise is that many Britons from other origins who settled here say 50 years ago are also proud of their new home & aren't offended by flags because they too are British.
    Basically, all these councils that ban flags etc., with the justification of them offending ethnic minorities are being more racist than anyone because they're saying that non-whites are not actually British, because a British person wouldn't be offended by the Union Flag.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with Dantheman. I find it very sad that we can't even fly our own flag anymore without people calling us racist. I think it's a real shame that no-one seems to have any pride left in Britain. And I think this lack of pride is part of the reason why we don't take a strong stance on any political issues anymore.

    Like a lot of people I feel more patriotic when I'm abroad. When I was studying in France and Russia, I loved hearing about the countries of all my friends (I was in a big mixed multi-national bunch) and I also liked telling people about my own country. I think it's important, every country has its own identity, its own culture, its own history and its own way of doing things. And Britain (or maybe I should say just England) doesn't seem to recognise or respect any of this.

    I'm proud of my country. Sometimes I wonder why though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't see anything wrong with patriotism, I grew up in a very mixed area and everyone was proud of their origins. Going to certain countries in Europe and seeing how far behind us in terms of race relations makes me proud to be English.

    When I look at the music, fashion and other cultural products of this country, I am proud.

    Too often people get patriotism confused with xenophobia. I have never met anyone from an ethnic minority who was offended by British/English flags and I do think some of these reports about councils banning them are a bit of a myth.

    People however unfortunately do get nervous at some displays of patriotism ie football matches as it was not that long ago that the far-right hijacked patriotic expression and the terraces.

    I think the solution is to have more celebrations of English culture as it exists today and involve everyone.
    Just imagine a St Georges Day festival in your town with punk bands, Drum and Bass DJs and Chicken Tikka Masala all great English inventions. :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm hugely patriotic. I'm British and i'm proud to be British. The reason I say i'm British and not say English or Irish is because my family come from Ulster and England. I am a mongrel of the countries of the UK. As far as I'm concerned being proud of the fact I'm British is a right of mine and no pc group protests, no football holligans making us look bad is going to stop that.

    Just who is British though. See I sometimes fear offending Black people. I often say "well that's us British for you" and things of the like. Well do they know I include them with their south London accent in that "us British" (and are they offended by that) or do they think i'm being a bit "us british - you johnny foreigner" (and are they offended by that? For me being British is saying you're British and meaning it.

    Alot of white people are incredibly scared of Patriotism. Well Englishmen anyway. Scots and Irishmen can shout the odds and Welshmen can be proud of a country that ceased to exist in the 1200's but Englishmen are white thugs with skin heads if they so much as wave the St George. Mainly beccause the PC bollocks has caught up with them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is England the only country in Europe (maybe the world) where the day its patron saint is celebrated is not a public holiday?

    I never understood that.

    With regard to flag flying and other public displays of patriotism, thankfully in the last few years the public has retaken the flag from far right groups. Last year in particular was the year when people embraced both the St. George's Cross and Union Jack openly in their millions thanks to the football and the Golden Jubilee. Let's hope it remains that way.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by RoyalSubject
    I'm hugely patriotic. I'm British and i'm proud to be British. The reason I say i'm British and not say English or Irish is because my family come from Ulster and England. I am a mongrel of the countries of the UK. As far as I'm concerned being proud of the fact I'm British is a right of mine and no pc group protests, no football holligans making us look bad is going to stop that.

    Just who is British though. See I sometimes fear offending Black people. I often say "well that's us British for you" and things of the like. Well do they know I include them with their south London accent in that "us British" (and are they offended by that) or do they think i'm being a bit "us british - you johnny foreigner" (and are they offended by that? For me being British is saying you're British and meaning it.

    Alot of white people are incredibly scared of Patriotism. Well Englishmen anyway. Scots and Irishmen can shout the odds and Welshmen can be proud of a country that ceased to exist in the 1200's but Englishmen are white thugs with skin heads if they so much as wave the St George. Mainly beccause the PC bollocks has caught up with them.

    'us British' suggests inclusion, I can't imagine anyway being offended by that
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    I think the solution is to have more celebrations of English culture as it exists today and involve everyone.
    Just imagine a St Georges Day festival in your town with punk bands, Drum and Bass DJs and Chicken Tikka Masala all great English inventions. :D

    I am soooo in favour of having big St George's day celebrations :yes:

    It's on my manifesto!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I’m patriotic, I’m very proud to be English, I’m proud of English history, culture, language and all the great thing that we have given the world. I’m not “politically correct” and if my patriotism offends someone, well that’s his or her problem and not mine. It’s a free country and if I want to display the cross of Saint George on the back of my car, I will.

    My only problem with patriotism is that to many it bound up with a family of inbreed Germans that own several very large houses in London, Windsor and another near Aberdeen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Paul_2
    ................I’m proud of English history, culture, language and all the great thing that we have given the world

    What would you say English culture is? What in your opinion is special about the English language. And what things have England given the world?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Paul_2


    My only problem with patriotism is that to many it bound up with a family of inbreed Germans that own several very large houses in London, Windsor and another near Aberdeen.


    Royal Familiies have always breeded with other countries for power reasons so what do you expect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im completely unpatriotic, im embarrassed at the wreck that is "england". why should i feel proud of a country in which what i say makes little difference? a country that is reduced to making points over smaller countries( see national assemblies, ie puppet parliaments in the case of wales) due to the fact that it is no longer a " superpower". am i proud of the fact my country has a history of colonialism? colonialism which led to the creation of many now 3rd world countries. proud of my countries violent, racist and sexist history? one which still continues today. shuold i really be all that proud of being english? being part of a nation which for centuries has strived to expand at its neighbours expense? a nation which refuses to let the scottish, the welsh and the northern irish govern themselves? a country so steeped in outdated tradition it gives privileges to a "royal family", didn't most other countries get rid of such ludicrous ideas centuries ago?
    i live in a country, no a world, where sexism, racism and bigotry is rife. dont let yourself be fooled by the outer scenery, look inside, and the white, rich men still control the world and britain.
    i am not proud to be british, i am more proud to be myself, a member of the worlds community, even if it is a heavily biased one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    What would you say English culture is? What in your opinion is special about the English language. And what things have England given the world?

    He won't answer 'cos he doesn't know.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    am i proud of the fact my country has a history of colonialism? colonialism which led to the creation of many now 3rd world countries.
    Not our fault they'd rather buy weapons than food and technology. In fact in my opinion the former empire is Britain's only way out of the rut (well America's Arsecrack) we're in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by RoyalSubject
    Not our fault they'd rather buy weapons than food and technology. In fact in my opinion the former empire is Britain's only way out of the rut (well America's Arsecrack) we're in.

    What an indepth understanding you have of world economics and politics. Well done. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh and I take it that this is not what's happening?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, its not that simple. In a lot of cases, British and American security services are supporting and encouraging military dictatorships. And your comment about the Empire is pure ignorance. Read some history.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dont feel any. I think it is just a country, and you live there. I think I am more British than I am Ghanaian, because I have never lived in Ghana. I'd hate to be sent to live in Ghana, simply because its a crappy place to live.

    'Crappy' with better weather and food? Have you ever been there? What's your basis for stating that it's 'crappy'?
    In the athletics, a Ghanaian runner, Kofi/Kwame/somethingequallyGhanaian Nkansah was racing Dwain Chambers in the 100m. My parents had been supporting Chambers all the way, until he faced Nkansah. Then my parents went all Ghanain and started supporting Nkansah and chanting "Ghana".

    As a Ghanaian then, you do KNOW why some Akan (if you know who the Akans are...:lol:) males are called Kwame?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not really patriotic, or if I act like it it's only for a joke. I wouldn't go out and kill for my country for example, but I recognise how lucky we are to live here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    'Crappy' with better weather and food? Have you ever been there? What's your basis for stating that it's 'crappy'?


    As a Ghanaian then, you do KNOW why some Akan (if you know who the Akans are...:lol:) males are called Kwame?

    No answer, huh?

    I take it he's ashamed of his culture then......... :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In the athletics, a Ghanaian runner, Kofi/Kwame/somethingequallyGhanaian Nkansah was racing Dwain Chambers in the 100m. My parents had been supporting Chambers all the way, until he faced Nkansah. Then my parents went all Ghanain and started supporting Nkansah and chanting "Ghana".

    Wo o te sen? :cool:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    No answer, huh?

    I take it he's ashamed of his culture then......... :)
    maybe he just doesn't know the answer? and won't accept he doesn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He SHOULD know, if he really claims his parents are from Ghana....:lol: :cool:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And what if his parents have chosen to raise him apart from his original culture and traditions (and perhaps even language)?

    You presume far too much mono.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It could be that he hasn't looked in on this forum for a few days.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    And what if his parents have chosen to raise him apart from his original culture and traditions (and perhaps even language)?

    You presume far too much mono.

    You presume too much.

    Many second generation people in Britain understand their original roots and culture. Go to any southern Asian community and you'd see where I'm coming from.

    I know many people from Africa who are second generation yet know about their parents' culture.

    I just like the attempts to 'defeat' my argument. :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No attempt was made to "defeat" your argument since as usual you present no argument, only presumption and the all too common one or two word quip. Neither was it anyone but yourself taking issue with the nationality of the poster.

    Notwithstanding that, whilst many do know and understand or even practice the culture of their forebears, many do not. So once again your presumtpion of what the poster above is or isnt based on your self appointed litmus test is flawed from the get go.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    His nationality is British. That's not in question. The fact if whether he can claim to comprehend aspects of his culture is in question.

    And you raise an unsubstantiated point. Who are the 'many' (even though I gave you a rational example to the contrary) who don't understand the culture of their parents? How many immigrants do you mix with where you live?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Countless numbers of immigrants actually, or have you never been to Brussels and therefore have no clue of the cultural diversity of the capitol of Europe?

    FYI, I happen to live in a largely Turkish and Muslim area which in recent years has also attracted large numbers of Pakistanis, Polish, and African immigrants.

    All I need do is step out my door to encounter 1st, 2nd and third generation immigrants and there are many whose parents have sought a break from the old ways for their children in order to facilitate greater integration.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    His nationality is British. That's not in question. The fact if whether he can claim to comprehend aspects of his culture is in question.

    And you raise an unsubstantiated point. Who are the 'many' (even though I gave you a rational example to the contrary) who don't understand the culture of their parents? How many immigrants do you mix with where you live?

    Sadly its true, there are many children of immigrants who do not know their own culture. This is also true to many from a purely British descent. Not too sure why education, parenting or just pure laziness, who knows?
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