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Population Growth

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I read an article in the Sunday Times today which got me thinking.

British governments have never had a long term policy toward population growth , they have always just built new houses for the increasing numbers of people. Britain is the fastest growing large country in Western Europe and there is expected to be 65m of us by 2036.

Some (such as David Attenborough) favour large reductions in our population , cutting it to 30m in 30 years. This is essentailly a Green argument.

Others favour population increase. Look at America , currently the US economy is about 20% bigger than the EU's , by the middle of the century it is expected to be 250% bigger. The main reason for this is population growth , today the EU has 100m more people than the US , by 2050 there will be 40m fewer Europeans. Also , the working population of the EU will decline after 2010 wheras Americas will keep growing , after 2025 this will accelerate.

The economic argument is clear , we cannot afford not to increase our population.

So what do we do?

Do we cut our populations in half and fall further and further behind the USA in economic power , whilst at the same time putting less strain on the enviroment and natural resources?

Or do we encourage population growth to match the USA's , and keep our economy growing alongside it?

I support the second option , economic growth does not necessarily entail huge pollution , we must learn to be more efficient with resources and use them sensibly.

What do you think?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    not sure where they get these figures from. you can actualy find figures that will show the u.k's population in steep decline ...to the point where a lot of cities are pulling houses down, whole areas and schools. housing is being replanned for singles and childless couples due to the oill, abortion and carears. in fact the population of the entire western world is supposed to be plummeting whilst the third worlds is rocketing?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-782081,00.html

    This is the article.

    The UKs population is growing still , as is that of most European nations.

    The USAs population is still growing rapidly , thanks mainly to immigration and ethnic minorities having large families.

    And yes , the Third Worlds population in developing countries is exploding.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    um, just to as a really stupid question. how do you cut the population down?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Population and economic growth shouldn't be an end in itself. I don't think we should aim to keep growing purely because America is, and we don't want to lose ground on them. I've studied this problem in detail at uni, and I'm not going to start quoting books and articles and things, but we urgently need to reduce our 'ecological footprint' - our impact on the environment. One of the main steps we can take in this direction is to slow population growth.

    Or we could just keep growing, and say "**** the future", and leave them to sort out the mess we leave them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by KoolCat
    um, just to as a really stupid question. how do you cut the population down?

    Encourage people to have less children, although they don't need much encouraging - the birth rate is already falling due to abortion, contraception, women having fewer children and having them later in life etc.

    Second part is stopping immigration into the UK so that as the population dies off it will fall, introducing euthanasia would also make a small contribution towards this.

    But I have no idea how you could halve the population in a few decades like that Optimum Population thing are proposing, seems totally mad to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ok thanks Kev, i thought it would be something along those lines. :)

    nope, i don't think it's a good idea to try and forceably reduce the population. we're already suffering from a diminishing working population, we should sort out things like that first.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    to reduce our 'ecological footprint' - our impact on the environment. One of the main steps we can take in this direction is to slow population growth

    We can reduce our 'footprint' without having to slow population growth. More efficient use of natural resources can help , as can advances in science and technology which can help us support more people with reduced pollution.
    growing purely because America is

    But what about the EU becoming a military and economic counterweight to the USA?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The military capability issue is rather a non sequitor concerning the topic of this thread Mat, what exactly are you driving at?

    The EU of 15 already has a higher population than the US and with 10 new countries coming in it will be more populous by far.

    The joint military issue is one of political will not population.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by kevlar85
    Encourage people to have less children, although they don't need much encouraging - the birth rate is already falling due to abortion, contraception, women having fewer children and having them later in life etc.

    Second part is stopping immigration into the UK so that as the population dies off it will fall, introducing euthanasia would also make a small contribution towards this.

    But I have no idea how you could halve the population in a few decades like that Optimum Population thing are proposing, seems totally mad to me.

    Euthanasia as population control? Are you sure? :eek2:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Euthanasia as population control? Are you sure? :eek2:
    start with the under 25's ...get to keep the more productive and worldy wise people that way ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    start with the under 25's ...get to keep the more productive and worldy wise people that way ...

    I think that leaves me, you and Clandy on this board LOL
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    I think that leaves me, you and Clandy on this board LOL
    i knew it was a good idea! just think getting rid of the under 25's would mean no more dreadful doof doof doof music ...that alone is worth it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    in that case can you stay if you're under 25 but don't like doof doof doof music?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Euthanasia as population control? Are you sure? :eek2:

    No, KoolCat asked how you could reduce the population, euthanasia could be used so I mentioned it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But BA and MR, surely if we rid ourselves of the under 25's it would be called "Youthanasia". ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sadly I'm well past the 25 mark so I'd remain- lucky me.

    On the other hand the young ones could decide to implement a Logan Run-style system. Reach 30 and you're sent to meet your maker in a spectacular ceremony.

    Classic movie that was!

    Back to the topic, I'm not so sure if population numbers are so strongly linked to the economy. I reckon it's more down to management. There are numerous examples of scarcely populated countries- such as some northern Europe nations- which fabulous GPDs and economies. And many heavily-populated countries (India comes to mind) where they're not exactly swimming in cash.

    Negative population growth has its own problems, but luckily immigration is at hand. Spain has or used to have the lowest birth rate in the EU and numbers had gone down from 40m to 38m in less than two decades. Now thanks to immigration they're back to almost 40m.

    When you think global you see that the earth is getting severely overpopulated. The problem might not originate from Europe, but still the less people born, the better.
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