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Hate Crimes

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Why is there a need to differentiate certain crimes as to the motiviation of the crime?

So a person gets assaulted for being gay. Why is that different from being assaulted for any other reason.

Prejudice shouldn't be illegal. ALL acts that violate a person's rights should be clamped down.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A violent crime is an attack between a few people. But a hate crime is an attack on societal values and laws. For instance, in my state some teens decided to attack Indians...calling them names etc. and telling them to go home or whatever. That's not their call. American society has welcomed them because we welcome all ethnicities. It was an attack on our values and the people.

    Another example. Some teen attacked this Muslim woman for being a Muslim. Again. That's not their call. Religious freedom is a core American value so the attack was an attack on a person and on a core American value we protect...and have fought other countries to protect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What do you by 'societal values'??

    Murder is illegal and society states its wrong to murder.

    The MOTIVATION behind a crime should NOT be in question. Harm and the violation of rights is still caused IRRESPECTIVE of the motivation behind the crime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In the case of a hate crime, the rights of the victim are being violated.

    And the values of the country are being violated.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And that is the case in other crimes. An assault violates anybody's rights regardless of the motivation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Hate Crimes
    Originally posted by monocrat
    Why is there a need to differentiate certain crimes as to the motivation of the crime?

    So a person gets assaulted for being gay. Why is that different from being assaulted for any other reason.

    Prejudice shouldn't be illegal. ALL acts that violate a person's rights should be clamped down.

    That isn't prejudice, it's discrimination and if we made that legal what sort of world would we live in!
    All assaults should be clamped down on, I don't think that a homophobic attack necessarily worse that a normal attack,
    but it's important to differentiate motivations in order to fight crime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Hate Crimes
    Originally posted by dantheman
    That isn't prejudice, it's discrimination and if we made that legal what sort of world would we live in!

    Would it? I think a person has a RIGHT to be prejudiced, as long as they don't violate the rights of others.

    All assaults should be clamped down on, I don't think that a homophobic attack necessarily worse that a normal attack,
    but it's important to differentiate motivations in order to fight crime.

    Is it? The result is still the same. A person is still hurt physically and emotionally as a result of the attack.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is important because the prejudice motivation of an attack could give clues to the offender(s) and it could be linked to a homophobic, racist gang etc in the area, so when differentiate
    you're more likely to be effective in fighting crime. I don't think gay people, black people etc deserve special treatment but I don't see a problem with calling an attack a hate crime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dantheman
    It is important because the prejudice motivation of an attack could give clues to the offender(s) and it could be linked to a homophobic, racist gang etc in the area, so when differentiate
    you're more likely to be effective in fighting crime. I don't think gay people, black people etc deserve special treatment but I don't see a problem with calling an attack a hate crime.

    Of course they don't deserve special treatment.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Re: Hate Crimes
    Originally posted by monocrat
    I think a person has a RIGHT to be prejudiced, as long as they don't violate the rights of others.




    Then if someone attacks someone on the grounds of prejudice surely they are violating that person's right to live freely and safely?

    Of course motivations behind crimes need to be recognised and monitored. If motivation is understood then the crime could be tackled and the criminal dealt with accordingly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Hate Crimes
    Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown
    Then if someone attacks someone on the grounds of prejudice surely they are violating that person's right to live freely and safely?

    Well duh. That's not the point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hate Crimes
    Originally posted by monocrat
    Well duh. That's not the point.

    Ummm....so therefore isn't it vital to differeniate between crimes, especially those with prejudice involved? Like the example you stated.

    You're the one without a point here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No it's not vital to differentiate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    No it's not vital to differentiate.

    Crimes are committed due to very different motivations, so to understand crime it is vital to differentiate. For example gbh; someone may be attacked because the criminal is drunk, or wanting to steal from that person, or the victim is black and the attacked is racist, or the victim is gay and the attacked is homophobic, or the victim is a woman and the attacker was trying to rape them etc.

    So you're saying the motivation for crime is irrelevant?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, because that is not my point.

    A hate crime should not 'worse' than another simply because prejudice is involved. The effects are still the same.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but again monocrat, a crime against an individual isn't an attempt by a criminal to define who a society can let in and let live. Hate crimes go beyond the personal sphere to impact on society as a whole.

    Now if in general a crime goes up in frequency...then again the crime is impacting on society. But it doesn't happen with the first crime against an individual. Hate crimes impact on society from the first crime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    Yes, because that is not my point.

    A hate crime should not 'worse' than another simply because prejudice is involved. The effects are still the same.

    Hmm..depends what the crime involved. Whatever the motivation behind the crime, the victim is still left traumatised.

    However I think crimes fuelled by prejudice need to be differentiated because otherwise prejudice can never be eradicated (not that it ever will be though...). If you've got someone attacking people just because they are gay, it is different to someone attacking people to steal their bag.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is no difference at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    but again monocrat, a crime against an individual isn't an attempt by a criminal to define who a society can let in and let live. Hate crimes go beyond the personal sphere to impact on society as a whole.

    Now if in general a crime goes up in frequency...then again the crime is impacting on society. But it doesn't happen with the first crime against an individual. Hate crimes impact on society from the first crime.

    I don't think hate crimes impact on 'society'.

    You fail to realise that many crimes 'harm' society and its values. Hate crimes are no different in that regard.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    I don't think hate crimes impact on 'society'.

    You fail to realise that many crimes 'harm' society and its values. Hate crimes are no different in that regard.

    That is why all different crimes and the motivations behind them need to be individually recognised because they all harm society in different ways.

    There is a difference and I agree that it can have an impact upon society, usually in the shape of moral panic, fear or accusations.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If more Indians were victims of crimes in America say. And it got around to Indians that they can go live in America but they might get beat up. And then in turn, all of the great Doctors and Software Engineers etc. who are Indian decided not to go to America...on an economic level can't you see how that would hurt our society. And then on a moral level. We claim to welcome all ethnic groups and have laws against their discrimination, if Indians decide, because of crimes, it doesn't include them, is that not impacting on the Constitution of America?

    Since America is 80% White. Do you think the same conclusions could be drawn by White people? How. We know we're the majority...and have to be welcome in America.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    I don't think hate crimes impact on 'society'.

    You fail to realise that many crimes 'harm' society and its values. Hate crimes are no different in that regard.

    You never saw the riots on the Caer Park estate against assylum seekers then did you. It took one or two lads to kick off on some Iraqi people and of course, as narrow minded and sheep-like this world is, about thirty (at least) joined in. Hate crimes and prejudice have an impact on people, it acts as an influence that is passed down generation to generation.

    Ok, so a friend of mine came in to work today with stitches in his face because somebody had beat him up in a club toilet. Do you honestly think it's Ok to beat somebody up just because of say... their sexuality?

    Indeed, cracking down on hate crimes may seem oppressive if you want to go "paki-bashing" or whatever, but at the same time (and for once I'm agreeing with the police and the government) this enforcement is acting as a tool to teach people to stop being so petty and to open their minds to see that they're not the only skin colour/race/sexuality that has any rights in this world.

    The difference between somebody going out and beating a person for being black and somebody going out and beating a person for stealing their girl is that the racist person will in all likelihood re-offend, beat up another black person for the sake of their skin colour.

    It doesn't impact on society? Where the fuck do you get your info from kid? Because the riot happened one night, it was planned for the BNP and national Front to come down to Wrexham to start another riot. Hey, if you're going to say stuff, back it up with relevent information.

    How do I know about the riots? I work behind a popular bar and get a lot of information on the area reguarding the riots. I've seen gangs of lads threaten my brother because of his sexuality. Otherwise he could walk around fine without being too scared to go through certain areas of Wrexham.

    Sorry Monocrat, but back it up with more than three sentences and a relevent link, then maybe I'll think you have an educated opinion on the matter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again the motivation behind a crime shouldn't be punished.

    Prejudice will always exist. It's knowing when not to violate the rights of others that is paramount here.
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