Would anyone like to help me?

Former Member

Hi there.

Brief intro: I'm Pete, I'm 24, I live in Worcestershire ... and I'm trying to write a dissertation Oh, and I've lurked here for ages but only posted once or twice)

Which is where the help comes in ... and I'm posting this in Anything Goes deliberately (tho' if it gets moved, that's ok) ... because I'd prefer it didn't end up duplicating the very interesting "God" topic in Politics and Debate.

Basically ... my dissertation is about young people and the church - how they interact, what works, what doesn't and so on. I would love to hear any experiences, stories or whatever that you have.

As well as that (is this too many questions!?) ... if you wanted to discuss questions about the meaning of life, and spiritual things and so on, how would you like to do it? Would you go to a local church and ask the vicar, or would you want some other way of thinking and talking about it?

I hope I haven't absent-mindedly broken any rules or annoyed anyone ... oh and I promise I'll not make use of what you say without asking you first!!

Former Member

well (and you can use any of this i dont mind) i dont believe in god. I find, in my experience a lot of christians (and they tend to be older but some are young) have very pessimistic views towards others (those of other cultures and religions) and therefore I view them as hypocrits.

I have had very bad experiences in life, and this is another reason why i find it difficult to belive in an almighty god. When things are tough he may not step in... but when things are tragically desperate??? I've never seen nor heard of him, and until that day comes, I believe i will be continually pessimistic.

as for the church - well I've had the same experiences with the church as i have with christian people (as above) in general. This isnt always just christians, this rule applies to a lot of religions to which i've come into contact with, and I find this increasingly sad. people are finding it increasingly easy to look out for their own, and no one elses which i find hard to comprehend, especially as i in particular live in such a hugely diverse cultural community. i find it sad that people can preach 'look after thy neighbour' and 'do unto others as you would have done unto yourslef' and yet they can look at the asian communtiy here in leicester and squirm at it??? Complaining about how 'over populated' we are becoming with 'foreigners'. well peronsally i dont have a problem. Everyone has to live somewhere right? im not talking about refugees or anythi=ng here, just asian families and in general. Most of the christians i have come into contact with are hypocrits. i dont find that easy to say being as tho i am myself a caucasian christened yougn lady, but i have no problem with admitting the fact that somehwere down the line religion seems to have turned into some sort of political farce.
Excuse me its late and ive been drinking wine alll nigth.

Former Member

practising what you preach would be a good start. stop bowing to lifeless idols made of wood and stone. it does look rather silly. stop the upper hierachy protecting kiddy fiddling priests. use the churches vast wealth in a positive manner for the good of mankind. stop bishops living in palaces with servants ...it upsets jesus. stop the priests giving 'gods' blessing to both side in a war ...i:e the germans and the english in the second world war ...it makes you look silly. look closely at why your jesus called the religous leaders hypocrites and sons of satan and then do a modern day comparison. stop giving your selves high and mighty fancy titles like 'the most revered' ...'the most holy' etc ...it makes you look silly.
face the fact that that the church has no relevance whatsoever to the reality of peoples lives. face the fact that most of it is lies and manipulation. face the fact that the church will be extinct soon.
well ...you did ask. can you take it? can you face up to these realities? i think not ...thats why the massive and obscene wealth of the organised religions will one day soon be plundered. sooner the better in my book.

Former Member

Hi ... thank you both for your replies ...

I don't really want to get into a "is religion/Christianity/the church a good thing or not" thread ... as that's not really going to get any of us anywhere. I should think most of us already know what we think about that and aren't going to to change our minds because of something we read on a website!

i have no problem with admitting the fact that somehwere down the line religion seems to have turned into some sort of political farce.

Nor me. That's true, and very sad. I suppose I want to know what we can do about it! But the subject of my dissertation isn't really "what's wrong with religion? but more "how does the church treat young people?" Badabing ... the idea of Christians being racist and xenophobic fills me with disgust and I suppose that's part of the reason that moroccan roll can say:

face the fact that that the church has no relevance whatsoever to the reality of peoples lives. face the fact that most of it is lies and manipulation. face the fact that the church will be extinct soon.

But what if there were a group of people who really cared for one another and for the society in which they lived? What if there were a group who believed that "little acts of kindness done with love can change the world"? What if there were a group who believed that God has a special place in his heart for the poor, the disadvantaged, the minority, the marginalised? Who sacrificed their time and money to share the energy and joy that God gave them with others? Would that be attractive? That's the church I am yearning for ... and I have a suspicion that, if treated right, young people could be at the forefront of that church.

Anyway ... anyone else have any experiences of the church they want to share?

Former Member

but the reality of it is that there will never be that church that you yearn for, because people within the church have kids - they bring them up in their way, continuing their predjudices and what not, and its a huge catch 22 because these people and their families will 99% of the time stay in the church and with the same views. People turn to religion for security and through fear, they need something to believe in. They can only turn to what is already there. The church is established - you cant turn to some make - believe church that has no existance yet because you wont recieve the security and safety net you crave. yes its a wonderful idea, but the likeliness it will ever happen it low.

The thing I find with the church is its old fashioned and traditional views. I find it hard to believe that they honestly think if they put on a youth day or let a few young religious bands play guitar there on a saturday afternoon that they can convert all young people into the 'good way of the world'. It aint gonna happen.

The will may be there, they may attempt to draw youngsters in by pretending to be hip and doing cool original things - but their underlying intent is still there, and this pushes people away. Whatever they do, however many youths days they put on, or religious bands they let play, all they are doing is trying to convert you to religion. They are trying to make you find god and thats where they go wrong.

If a 12 year old pregnant teen walked into the church and asked for help from a priest, just an ear to listen and a mouth to reply, i can guarantee you that everything he said in reply would be based on religion. She just wants someone to listen to her and give her impartial advice and maybe a shoulder to cry on, but no... he'll go and bring god into it and talk about 'What Would Jesus Do' and all that. He probably end the conversation by saying 'remember - jesus loves you and he will always be there for you', but is he going to be there when she cant afford nappies for her baby? or when the father of her child denys paternity and her mother kicks her out of their council flat and the governent wont give her any money and she's too young to get a job? Is he going to pay her rent and buy her milk? No. He's not.

Former Member

Originally posted by pedr
Hi ... thank you both for your replies ...

I don't really want to get into a "is religion/Christianity/the church a good thing or not" thread ... as that's not really going to get any of us anywhere. I should think most of us already know what we think about that and aren't going to to change our minds because of something we read on a website!



Nor me. That's true, and very sad. I suppose I want to know what we can do about it! But the subject of my dissertation isn't really "what's wrong with religion? but more "how does the church treat young people?" Badabing ... the idea of Christians being racist and xenophobic fills me with disgust and I suppose that's part of the reason that moroccan roll can say:



But what if there were a group of people who really cared for one another and for the society in which they lived? What if there were a group who believed that "little acts of kindness done with love can change the world"? What if there were a group who believed that God has a special place in his heart for the poor, the disadvantaged, the minority, the marginalised? Who sacrificed their time and money to share the energy and joy that God gave them with others? Would that be attractive? That's the church I am yearning for ... and I have a suspicion that, if treated right, young people could be at the forefront of that church.

Anyway ... anyone else have any experiences of the church they want to share?

sorry pedr, think i to eagerly missread your post.
the ammount of replies this thread has failed to generate says a lot.
i'm sure you mean well pedr but the church? why the church? there are millions of people around this world of ours who give of their time and energy and even money looking after and caring for all manner of people and things in a very loving way.
the church realy has had it's day i'm afraid. interesting what badabing was saying about pop groups and stuff ...surely thats not what the church is there for. the kids can do all that without the church.
the church to most young people i know, is all about old people, old ideas and huge expensive and pointless buildings. men dressed in black frocks who are removed from the common people. if you believe in god and want to encourage young people to believe in him it will have to be something far far removed from an ancient hypocritical and pompous church that likes to be at the top of the table with royalty and generals.
most young people i know who actualy do believe in god actualy believe that if you remove organised religion then god might actualy get a look in.
face the facts. the truth about the huge organised christian religions has been exposed for what it is. a corrupt hypocrysy.
people, especialy young 21st century people are far to well informed today to believe that the church has any semblance whatsover to truth. biblical christianity etc. your on a looser.
surely if you believe in the biblical god and wish to please him then you can do your good deeds away from some decrepit has been religous con. god will notice your struggles more than the local mr important and promolnent bishop surely.

Former Member

I agree with badabing quite a lot. The church that has got its claws into me preys on vulnerable people. They run a homeless hostel in Edinburgh and the amount of help the people that live there recieve is in direct relation to the amount of interest they show in becoming a Christian. People have to pretend to be 'saved' in order to get the best food or help with benefits etc. I talk to a lot of homeless people and I always have to tell them not to go there, which is sad.

They draw people into that church by saying that Jesus loves you. They say it doesn't matter about all the things you've done in the past, Jesus will make it all better. Then they say that the Holocaust is the Jews punishment for killing Jesus. Which makes me wonder, how can they say Jesus loves me, despite the sex and the drink and the drugs and all the rest of it, but that he doesn't love all the blameless Jewish children and babies that were murdered in the concentration camps.

I know these are born again christians, and I will get onto the Catholic church in a moment.......

Former Member

How can the church expect to draw in young people when all we can see is division in the church over the issue of one gay priest, who is celebate for gods sake. Does it really matter. All the Church (both Catholic and protestant) has ever done is push me further away from God with its internal corruption, prejudice and hatred for members of other faiths, its refusal to adapt and move forwards and its wholesale decimation of Christs message of peace and love. When I was a child all I knew was that jesus was a good bloke and that I should be nice to other people. When I talked to God I felt that he listened and replied. Now I don't feel that. Things are tough for lots of people. Its easy to ask Where is God? Where was God when my mate got gang raped at 15? Where was God when my mates violent junkie boyfriend beat her unconscious? Where was God when a girl I went to school with commited suicide at 16? Where was God when I was nearlly raped? And the list goes on. The Church is full of old fashioned people who have no idea what other people go through. And then they have the nerve to say that my life is wrong. Sorry this is a rant, but you asked for our opinion and you have got it.

Former Member

Wow! Interesting responses. Thank you!

Don't worry about the rant, angelic! I'm not even going to try to defend this church in Edinburgh, nor to deny for one minute that there are churches (maybe most of them) which are simply failing to do anything like what they should be.

Moroccon roll asked "why the church?" ... I suppose the easy answer is that that's what I've decided to do my research on! But that's the cop-out answer... I believe in the church because even though it's got things so abysmally wrong ever since it was set up, I still think that it's how God wants to be involved in the affairs of the world.

I also know that Christian people won't give up on the church, which makes what I'm trying to research even more significant ... because if well-meaning people (and most Christians are trying to be well-meaning at least!) are going to spend a lot of time and energy and money trying to make the church do what it should be ... well I'd like to help in the process of deciding what it *should* be!

Angelic ... can I ask you something? It seems as if you would really like the church to be able to help you get closer to God and I'm really sorry that it doesn't seem to be able to ... if you were going to start a church which you would be proud of being a part of, which you thought could help you and your friends and the people around you ... what would it look like?

Oh, and I found what badabing said about security and fear as driving forces behind people becoming/remaining part of church really fascinating. Thank you for that ... it's really making me think!

Former Member

I've PMd you so no one else has to listen to my nonsensical ramblings!

Former Member

except, of course, that they were far from non-sensical!

"Get a basic understanding of youth issues" is a brilliant point, and one many people miss ... how many 'adults' assume that it must be the same for young people today as it was when they were young?

Former Member

Originally posted by pedr
Wow! Interesting responses. Thank you!


I still think that it's how God wants to be involved in the affairs of the world.

i can't believe for a moment that god would use the church to be involved in human affairs. surely he would use the heart. if i were god i'd be so angry and embarressed by what the church does and doesn't do in my name i would wipe it from the face of the earth.
which i believe to be his plan if he's real and if the bible is his book.
all christian churches are breakaways of the catholic church. the catholic churh calls itself the mother of the churches. identyfying itself as a woman and a mother ...presumably the bride of christ.
have a look in the book of revelation and read about the destruction of babylon the great ...the great harlot the mother of harlots who fornicated with the kings of the earth.
again female and mother. this great harlot is identified as having her headquarters in a unique city on seven hills. vatican city is THE most unique city on earth, being the only city/state in existence. sat on the seven hills of rome. it goes on to describe her luxury of gold and precious stones, incense and fine carved woods ...it also identifies all those watching her destruction ...the kings of the earth , the generals, the merchants etc etc ...so none of these can be her. the great harlot is the catholic church and all her daughters. protestant churhes etc. god pleads that his people get out of her so they too fdon't suffer destruction, so this is not catholic/protestant individuals who are no doubt sincere on the whole ...it is the organisation, the church. before you condemn me read it.

Former Member

Will you forgive me if I don't reply to that in detail? It's a very interesting thought ... I'd want to quibble with the claim that *every* church, and therefore the church in general is descended from the Catholic Church. Certainly Eastern Orthodox Christians wouldn't agree with you!!

Although maybe I, too, would wipe the church off the face of the earth and start again if I were God. But I don't think that's how God works ... he knows that we're human, that we get things very wrong, that many of us are power-hungry and self-seeking. I just think that he uses those of us who aren't despite the bits of the church that are.

Anyway, it's late and that's enough for tonight!

Former Member

Originally posted by pedr
Will you forgive me if I don't reply to that in detail? It's a very interesting thought ... I'd want to quibble with the claim that *every* church, and therefore the church in general is descended from the Catholic Church. Certainly Eastern Orthodox Christians wouldn't agree with you!!

Although maybe I, too, would wipe the church off the face of the earth and start again if I were God. But I don't think that's how God works ... he knows that we're human, that we get things very wrong, that many of us are power-hungry and self-seeking. I just think that he uses those of us who aren't despite the bits of the church that are.

Anyway, it's late and that's enough for tonight!

somewhere in my house there must be a bible ...can i find it no!
i'll go and get one tomorrow from somewhere so i can qoute the exact scriptures in revelation. if i go to that much trouble will you at least bother to read them ...and then come back and discuss it with me?


anyone else interested in reading about the destruction of 'babylon the great' in revelation, make sure you do it in a modern language translation becuase the ...thees and thous of the king james yorkshire speech looses a lot of people simply because it aint the english you speak today.