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UK drug laws!

SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
Here in Britain, Cannabis is to become a Class C drug, which means possesion of the drug will not result in arrest. Intent to supply however still remains an arrestable offence.

In my view this is only a start to the changes that need to be made to Britain's current drug laws which seem tottaly outdated to me. Current laws make normally respectable citizens into crimminals, just because they like to consume soft drugs such as cannabis and ecstasy every once in a while.

Should we not have the right to make an educated descision on what substances we can put in our own body? We have the right with alcohol and nicotine which are proven to be very damaging, why do we not have the right with drugs such as cannabis and ecstasy?

I havn't put this into the drugs forum cos not only is it also a political issue the response in the drugs forum will be far more predictable if you get what I mean. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"&gt;


Mary Jane in my brain, eases my pain! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/nogood.gif"&gt;
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I argee totally...

    Ive not used any drugs for a couple of years now, since I left school but I still think they should be legalised. Unfortunately this hasnt gone far enough for my liking. Keeping the supply of cannabis illegal means that the dealers are still going to be criminal scumbags..Fully legalise its use and supply.

    If it werent for the fact that drug addicts will turn to crime to fund their habit then I would be all for legalising every kind of drug. If someone wants to kill themselves with heroin or cocaine then thats there choice. Unfortunately those people are liable to rob me in order to pay for their habit.

    I really cant stand the people who want to keep such a feeble drug as cannabis illegal when alcohol has killed a million times more people than cannabis and yet their dole it out to anyone.



    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All I would ask then is that there should be the equivilent of the breathalyzer for drug testing as I think that driving under the influence of soft or hard drugs is as dangerous as driving with alcohol. And the test should be applied as routinely as the breathalyzer.

    (or doing anything that you would be stopped from doing if you were drunk etc)

    unstonedchild
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Found some statistics:

    Deaths per year

    Tobacco -120,000
    Alcohol -4,235
    Canabis -1
    Penuts -7

    (I know its not deaths per thousand but hey! Who cares?)

    I also think that giving doctors the power to prescribe heroin to adicts is a very good idea.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    I think there are now several politicians who are coming round to this way of thinking, but the attitude of the general public still hasn't changed much since the "Just Say No" government drug campaigns.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    T how did the 1 death from cannabis occur?
    The only death ive ever heard about was a French Foreign Legionaire who managed to commit suicide by eating several ounces of Hashish-but that was years ago.
    My personal view is that Britain should adopt a Dutch approach with coffeshops etc.
    Im not sure about harder drugs but i think that addiction should become a medical issue rather than a criminal one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im not sure about harder drugs but i think that addiction should become a medical issue rather than a criminal one.

    Nope, I strongly believe that if we were to legalise all drugs then abuse should be very strongly punished. Unfortunately personal responsibility doesnt exist in this day and age.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's an article in the Daily Mail today following the move of Cannabis to a Class C drug and it goes on about how these two girls died after taking ecstasy but it was Cannabis that lead to them taking Ecstasy so therefore Cannabis is to blame for their deaths. This in my opinion is crap!!

    I first started smoking cannabis 9 years ago. From smoking it I never once thought right I need to get a better buzz I must try harder stuff. I have also taken Ecstacy I first tried it this year. I normally smoke cannabis if Im round a mates and we want to chill out whereas I would take ecstacy if I was going clubbing in London. The two give me a totally different buzz.
    Anyway what Im trying to say is smoking cannabis did not in anyway make me want to go try other drugs. I think what it boils down to is what the individual wants. They have their own limits. From all the people I know that take drugs none of them went on to harder stuff because of Cannabis some dont even smoke the stuff but do E's etc how do they explain that one? When I first started smoking cannabis I was also offerd Ecstacy but had no interest in taking it. Now that I'm older and go clubbing I want to take it. If I didn't smoke cannabis I would still take it. The only link between the two are that they are both illegal substances.

    Sorry! I think I've just been warbling bollocks there but I saw that article and it made me angry. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif"&gt;



    [This message has been edited by Miss P (edited 25-10-2001).]
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Ecstasy is another dug which should come down a Class. At present it has a Class A clasification along with drugs such as heroin. In just over 10 years something like 60-70 people have died from using the drug irresponsibly (Dehaydarating, overheating and drinking too much water). It should in my view, at least be put down to a Class B drug. Most drugs would be safer if they were properly regulated with proper education given. You're never gonna get people to stop using drugs altogether so the emphisis should shift from prohibitation to education.

    Hopefully this is the start of all drug laws in the UK being revised and updated.

    On another point, isn't it weird that the news about cannabis was released quite quietly and conveniently while the news is full the Taliban situation?
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Skive:
    On another point, isn't it weird that the news about cannabis was released quite quietly and conveniently while the news is full the Taliban situation?
    Or is it to confuse the liberals (not Liberals) who were complaining about the bombing?

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    soapbarbpy, the one death from canabis was due to someone being sick and choking on there vomit, the other stats are directly linked ie killed by heroin/ penuts etc.

    About the french guy, I thought in order to OD on canabis you had to consume more than your boddy weight?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't care what stuff you take but I do care about all the crime that is committed in order to feed the habit (the hard drugs.

    Legalise the lot but very severe penalties for abuse and crime committed involving/for drugs.

    my 2 pence worth.

    peaceplonker
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont't think legalising all drugs is a good idea but certainly most. As legalsing will in my opinion noit envourage more people to do them. In alot of cases it will reduce the people who do it cuz they think its "hard" to break the law!

    Legalising in my opinion means better control of the drug and pricing, contents and possibly even advice.

    But i agree with whats been mentioned above abuse and drug related crime should be treated very severely.

    its not illegal til u get caught <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/monkbum.gif"&gt;
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quote from Skive....

    "Ecstasy is another dug which should come down a Class. At present it has a Class A clasification along with drugs such as heroin. In just over 10 years something like 60-70 people have died from using the drug irresponsibly (Dehaydarating, overheating and drinking too much water)."

    Come on Skive that's a bit harsh isn't it. Firstly I agree that ecstasy should be lowered to class B. There's no way that is deserves to be ranked with smack and crack. But you can't say that those who have died using E have done so because they have been irresponsible in controlling the effect the drug had on them. I use ecstasy and I know I am taking a risk every time I take a pill. That's where the irresponsible factor comes into play. The simple fact is there's no safe way of popping pills.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by lovedup:

    Come on Skive that's a bit harsh isn't it.

    In better words what I meant was...

    To say that a person died from Ecstasy is never the full story any more than saying that someone died of drink: like alcohol, Ecstasy can be used without any harmful effect. In both cases, death is due to the indirect effects which can be avoided if you are aware of the dangers and look after yourself. The difference is that the dangers of being drunk are well known and recognised, while the dangers resulting from Ecstasy use are far less known. Far from saving young people from harm, much of the so-called drugs education has confused users by trying to scare them, rather than explain the dangers and how to avoid them.

    - Nicholas Saunders


    What I wrote sounded harsh but it still makes sense.

    Rest of this excellent article can be found right here, www.ecstasy.org/info/dangers.html

    The media needs to sort out it's views on drugs even more than the government in my opinion!




    Mary Jane in my brain, eases my pain! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/nogood.gif"&gt;
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by fJear M3:
    I dont't think legalising all drugs is a good idea but certainly most. As legalsing will in my opinion noit envourage more people to do them. In alot of cases it will reduce the people who do it cuz they think its "hard" to break the law!



    Aggreed to a certain extent - but explain that in relation to the number of over 16 who are smokers (possibility of addictions b4 16yo aggreed) or more in relation the the excessive consumption of alcohol - I go out every weekend and get v. durnk, its perfectly leagal but not sfe to do so.




    --
    concentirc_circles

    Sex is the only liquid center at the great Newberry Fruit of friendship. - Jilly Cooper 1937 -
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really dont care if it reduces the amount of people using drugs or not. If people want to take drugs thats their choice. If they wanna take harder drugs and risk their lives then ditto, their own choice.

    Any drug addict that overdoses is no loss to society.

    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    I really dont care if it reduces the amount of people using drugs or not. If people want to take drugs thats their choice. If they wanna take harder drugs and risk their lives then ditto, their own choice.

    Any drug addict that overdoses is no loss to society.


    I have a couple of issues with drugs generally and you've touched on one there Balddog. Any drug addict who overdoses is a loss. These people have aprents and children too - a drug addict isn;t just a bummed out loser with nothing going for them, at least not until they become addicted. And here is the crux of the problem, how do you stop people becoming addicted? These are SERIOUSLY addictive substances - more so than alcohol and nicotine - and we should control their availability. Don't forget that the Brit introduced opium as a means of controlling a populous...

    I do think that we should re-evaluate the classification of drugs - but I wouldn't advocate wholesale legalisation.

    Besides, don't you think that by legalising drugs you will make their use much more widespread?


    "Perhaps my best years are gone, but I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now." - Samuel Beckett

    <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/parental.gif"&gt;
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MOK,

    Sure the addicts death will be a loss to that persons family but personally I couldnt care less and their death is no loss to society in general. I can only dream of what life is like without drug related crime.

    How do you stop people getting addicted? You cant is the short answer but heavily punishing addicts is one way that may work in some small way. If people are stupid enough to get addicted to a drug that may well kill them then its their fault. I dont know of a single drug that will get you addicted after one use and if used with suffiecent time gap then all drugs can be used rather than abused.
    Besides, don't you think that by legalising drugs you will make their use much more widespread?

    This confuses me sometimes. I dont see whats wrong with more people using cannabis if they want to. Probably 90% of the adult population drinks alcohol today, I wouldnt have a problem with the same percentage smoking cannabis. If fully legalised and the sale sorted out then it would become as alcohol and not dealt out in small bags in seedy back alleys by some crack dealing twat.

    Blunketts latest proposal is crap though, it just leave everything in limbo. Its legalish to use but illegal to buy it. This means its still going to be the same criminal dealers who sell the stuff..He needs to go the whole hog and fully legalise the trade in cannabis.



    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    Besides, don't you think that by legalising drugs you will make their use much more widespread?

    I guess the issue is whether we think drug use is bad, or just drug abuse. I can see parallels with the gun debate.

    I can see the argument for allowing people to make up their own minds; that a "free" society must allow its citizens to mke their own mistakes. I can't see how to squre that with "support," though. A "safety net" seems to me to be a renaming of "drconian restriction."

    Are we to operate under the assumption that people, are, by and large, too stupid to make a responsible choice for themselves? It's the founding assumption of almost every policial system that has worked (i.e. survived for any length of time) in human history, after all.

    Personlly, I don't do drugs, and don't want to. I simply don't like the idea of ceding part of my life to a pill, cigarette or injection. If you want to call caffiene a drug, I'm an occasional tea and cola user, but... <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"&gt;




    You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics. But not much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm trying to remember the info I read.

    In 1979 there were about 2000 registered heroin addicts in Holland.

    Holland then liberalised the drugs laws, there are now 25000 registered heroin addicts.

    Would there be that many if the laws had not been changed ?

    peacechild
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    And here is the crux of the problem, how do you stop people becoming addicted? These are SERIOUSLY addictive substances - more so than alcohol and nicotine - and we should control their availability.


    There's not many drugs more addictive than nicotine. In fact if I remeber from a article in the paper a short time ago it's about 25's the addictiveness of heroin. Don't ask me how they calculated that!

    The thing is you're not ever gonna stop people from taking addictive substances and getting hooked but not all drugs are like that. Many drugs are classed together when in realality there are large differences between them and different dangers.

    There's a lot of drug's that don't need to be looked on so badly and other drugs that should carry harder laws. For instance although I welcome this new about cannabis I also think that ecstasy as a drug does far less damage to society. but in terms of the damage caused to the user ecstasy is worse.

    What I mean is that by popping a few pills every now and then I'm classed by a druggie as some and imediatley treated in the same way as a heroin user when we are totally different.

    I think that most people on this board have agreed that total legalisation is a bad idea, but serious changes need to be made. Our dug laws need to be revised to bring them into line with the general attidude the public has of narcotics today!
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive,
    when you pop a few pills do you drive ?

    I don't drink and drive and years ago when I had a reefer (that dates me <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"&gt; ) I wouldn't drive either.

  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by peacechild:
    Skive,
    when you pop a few pills do you drive ?

    I don't drink and drive and years ago when I had a reefer (that dates me <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"&gt; ) I wouldn't drive either.


    I've done all three in the short time I've been driving. I'll stay well away from driving pissed or pilled now but I will still drive if mildly stoned.

    There was an experiment done recently where some drivers were tested on their abilities and then tested on a number of different substances. The only drug that didn't hinder the driving skills of any of them was cocaine which actually improved the ability. Caution was given though cos it gives you too much confidence.

    Why did you ask?
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by peacechild:
    I'm trying to remember the info I read.

    In 1979 there were about 2000 registered heroin addicts in Holland.

    Holland then liberalised the drugs laws, there are now 25000 registered heroin addicts.

    Would there be that many if the laws had not been changed ?

    peacechild

    When heroin was prescribed to addicts in Britain there were something like 9000 registered addicts, now it is illegal there are tens of thousands more - would this have been different if they hadn't changed the law?



    [This message has been edited by al (edited 29-10-2001).]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Original quote from Skive...

    "There was an experiment done recently where some drivers were tested on their abilities and then tested on a number of different substances. The only drug that didn't hinder the driving skills of any of them was cocaine which actually improved the ability."


    It's all lies, damn lies and statistics Skive!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't discount what Skive's saying: after all, cocaine is a stimulant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just think u guys tend to put a lot of faith and emphasis on stats and research. I'm really cynical towards this kind of information and would rather form my own opinions based on my own beliefs. I realise that this needs to be backed up with solid fact, but remeber that the majority of research projects are biased and those instructing the research have a interest in the facts being in their favour.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thus we also spend a lot of our time evaluating sources. we look at stats, and we think "right, this comes from a russian research agency", and we look at biases, we look at fallibilities, at information that is required to improve the evidence.

    so yes, we do put a lot of emphasis on stats, because they are the best thing we have.

    as i see it, basing ur opinions on ur beliefs is how this world got so fucked up in the first place, cos u get ignorant wankers walking around saying "i believe the world revolves around the sun, because that's what my holy book says", whether it be the bible or the koran or what have u.

    i would rather listen and interpret biased and evaluable (word?) statistics that have been scientifically collected than listen to a piece of shit book written by hallucinating freaks 2000 years ago. sounds like a recipie for disaster - oh wait, we've proof of that.

    sorry lovedup, i somewhat disagree with ur statement.

    If there's anything more important than my ego around here, i want it caught and shot now
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If u DO actually interpret the biases correctly that is fantastic. However what I'm saying is if person A comes on here with a pile of research that completely validates one side of the argument and person B has a different pile of research proving the other side of the argument, who is right? Because each person will have just as much faith in the sources of their information because it supports their cause.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And can I also say, stats aren't all we have. 63 percent of statistics are made up on the spot.......

    Education is all we have.
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