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Capitalism

Hiya I'd like to know your opinions on capitalism. I reckon in 20 years or maybe even less the big names like McDonalds, Starbucks and Gap, will have totally taken over leaving consumers with no choice a la Microsoft. I think that will be a sad time and I feel bad about bringing kids into a world like this. Sorry to be melodramatic but I just read a book called No Logo which really made me think. The press just make it worse by condemning all anti capitalists and saying they are violent thugs.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I love capitalism.

    Thanks to capitalism i can buy what i want from many different companies for very low prices.

    The big companies wont be able to completely take over, thats what makes capitalism great.
    Free trade is great.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by KrazedKT:
    The press just make it worse by condemning all anti capitalists and saying they are violent thugs.

    Are they not?

    *goes back to reading the Daily Mail*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can see your point but I hate the way our society is becoming more Americanised. Every town centre has the same shops, you can't go 100 metres without a McDonalds and it annoys me!!!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and it annoys me!!!!

    Why? Because they are successful?

    There are millions and millions of British people, myself included, who are damn glad theres a macdonalds in almost every town.

    Every town centre has the same shops because people like buying what they sell. You think there would be any GAP stores here if us Brits didnt want to buy GAP clothes? Its supply and demand. We want it and they can provide it.

    If becoming Americanised means cheap, available, well made products for me then bring it on...Thats the marvel of capitalism, whoever can provide the cheapest or best goods will win the business. The fact that the people doing the most business are American firms just shows that they are the best firms at what they do.

    Can you tell us exactly why you dislike capitalism. Hatred for all things American doesnt quite cut the mustard.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying I hate all things American. i just hate the fakeness "have a nice day" plastic seats, every city becoming exactly the same. You don't have to come on disagreeing with everything I say, trying to prove me wrong. It's just my opinion the same as your opinion is yours. And I'm sure that for every person who is glad about McDonalds taking over, there is one who is not glad!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Krazed,

    Sorry but this is a discussion forum. I assumed you posted here because you wanted to discuss the issue.

    I can safely say that in the 12 years ive been eating at macdonalds I have never had an English staff member say have a nice day to me...The Americans may be importing their companies but they certainly arent importing their customer service.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with KT on this one. I hate to see the day when the worst nightmares of Bill Bryson the travel writer come true, when every city is exactly like every other.

    Companies like McDonalds are only successful because of marketing. The food they provide is pure shite. For half the price you can goto a chipshop and get a decent meal. The reason why everyone loves McDonalds is because they are a familiar sight, whereever you go you can be sure there will be one. It's the same with Starbucks, £3 they charge for a cup of coffee, and it tastes no different than the coffee you get in a jar.

    Capitalism is just a big joke designed to rip off consumers, I would much rather pay a couple of pence more for something that at least looks like it is home made and not cooked by a bunch of non-qualified teenagers. I'm not a communist by any means, but surely you must see that you are being ripped off?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes I do want to discuss. Sorry. :-)

    I just find it quite disturbing that my 2 year old neice knows what a Mcdonalds is and asks for it by name which is quite blatantly because they target their advertising (not all of it obviously) towards kids. She can't read or write but these brands have already had an effect on her life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by KrazedKT:
    I hate the way our society is becoming more Americanised.

    As someone who's read the American State Papers (something, strangely, that most anti-Americans don't bother to do before daring to slag the country off) I can say that I have little problem with widespread Americanization. Of course, you might say that it's naive to judge a country solely on the basis of it's initial principles. Then again, it's just as naive to to judge a religon on the same, and few people seem prepared to acknowledge the monsters Catholicism, Islam and so on have become...




    You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics. But not much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm against Americanisation because it is another threat to Britishness. Not because I hate Americans, but because I hate the idea that every part of their culture has seeped down into ours.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere,

    Can you please name a company who doesnt use marketing?
    I dont mean to be rude but who the hell are you to tell me what I like and dont like. I eat at Macdonalds because I like the food. I absolutely love the taste of plain cheeseburgers and get them whenever i can.

    There are three chipshops in my town centre and all of them sell soggy shitty chips. I dont like them so I eat elsewhere. Surely thats my choice.

    Starbucks? Ive never even seen one..I dont go to London much admittedly but they arent on the same scale as macdonalds. So they charge a lot for coffee you can get from a jar, so what? Are you willing to carry round a jar of coffee and kettle with you all the time on the offchance you may want a cup? Its convenience.

    I 'must' see im being ripped off because I like to buy cheap, tasty food thats prepared very fast? Im being ripped off because id rather spend 5 mins and £5 in a macdonalds than in my local pub which takes 30 mins and £10 for cheeseburger and chips.


    Krazed,

    Watch TV at around 3-4pm and I bet you wont find many adverts that arent targetted at kids. Most of which arent American firms. Those brands wouldnt have had any effect on your neice wasnt watching TV..I shudder to think how much TV a 2 year old would need to watch before she could name the brand.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The TV is one thing, but there is also the fact of a big shiny M every 100 yards when she gets taken out to the shops or to nursery.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well Krazed,

    You or your sister/brother must have taken your neice to Macdonalds at one point or else she wouldnt have a clue what it was.

    You give a kid something they like and they want it over and over. The big M means nothing if she hasnt a clue what that big M is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Baldogg,
    fine, you like McDonalds, and it's a shame that where you live you arent spoilt for choice. I don't eat at McDonalds because I can get better food cheaper at places like wetherspoons. It's a chain I know, but at least it's not "in your face".
    I don't know about you, but you can't beat steak and chips from a normal pub.

    But this is not denying that Capitalism is still a big rip off. The only reason the big companies survive is because they provide low quality but cheap products to a mass market. If they provided good quality then it wouldn't be cheap and they wouldn't be in buisness, which is exactly what is happening to every buisness that does aim to provide decent produce.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fact-the big m and the Nike swoosh are the most recognised brands in the world. It's not the point as to whether a kid gets taken to McD's. Kids get taken to loads of places but don't ask for them by name. Maybe kids like McDs food because they like bland, fatty stuff, I don't know. I just know that when I was younger I didn't have this obsession with having to have the right trainers or eat the right food, the way that kids seem to today. And it's not like I'm even that old.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The only reason the big companies survive is because they provide low quality but cheap products to a mass market.

    Sorry but why is this a bad thing? You wanna pay more for a home cooked pub meal then do so. Macdonalds isnt forcing pubs out of business. Its really not your place to decide for other people what they can buy and where they can shop. Their sales figures alone prove that more people agree with me on this one.

    There are dozens of country pubs around my area of rural hertfordshire but I dont have the time to sit down for 30 mins while they cook my meal. Macdonalds is not somewhere you go for a decent meal and night out, its a convenience food shop. I know full well that they put cheap shit in the burger but you know what? I dont care. I like the taste, I like the price and I like the time....If you think its a ripoff then I have a simple solution...Dont give them your business. Nobody is forcing you to eat at macdonalds.

    Krazed,

    Youre right they are the most recognised logos in the world....BUT they are not the most recognised by 2 year old girls. Kids arent born with a knowledge of marketing gimmicks and corporate logos. If a kid whos never been in a macdonalds sees a big M then they might ask what it is andwhy its so big but they sure wont automatically know its a macdonalds restaurant.

    You didnt have fashion when you went to school? Im 22, i left school in 97...I never felt it was required for me to wear designed clothes. I bought designer clothes because they were better quality than the cheap stuff.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't say there wasn't fashion. Fashion isn't exclusively confined to those who can afford/choose to buy designer clothes. You can wear nice clothes without a brand. I just know what the kids are like where I live-"look, that geek wears mercury trainers" etc. Fraggles who pay over £100 for Rockports just to wear them to hang around street corners drinking cider. People can choose to spend their money how they like but I'm allowed to have an opinion on it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you will find that kids have mocked other kids on what they wear for decades. The poor kid wearing crappy clothes always got the piss taken out of him.

    Kids are kids.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well you can get nice clothes without labels. I can't afford to buy designer clothes but no one has ever taken the piss out of me for it. Just because people are poor it doesn't mean they have no fashion sense, wheras you can get people with millions with none at all. Look at Tara Palmer whatsername, and the Queen for two prime examples.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im not saying anything about the fashion sense of poor people. Im saying that kids always take the piss out of the kid with the dodgy clothes. In the past it was the poor kids with crappy clothes, today it is kids without the right label. Its just the way kids are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Damn... so much to say. I used to be a full out anarchist (the peaceful sort tho <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/tongue.gif">). Now... I'm probably less so, haven't really thought about it much recently. I will post more later, I have to go to college now (for my economics and business course..... very anarchic <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by KrazedKT:
    Just because people are poor it doesn't mean they have no fashion sense, wheras you can get people with millions with none at all. Look at Tara Palmer whatsername, and the Queen for two prime examples.

    Actually, I think the queen has very good taste in clothes.
    As for McDonalds, I hate it. Not because I'm an anti-American lefty, just because the food is crap. Personally, I find the best places to find burgers are caravans by the side of the road and in industrial estates. Call me odd, but I just think they taste better. Brand name products aren't always better quality. This might apply to clothing, but in almost every other area, smaller companies can produce better goods. This is especially true in the food industry. I bought a loaf of bread, fresh from the local bakers. It tasted better than your usual Hovis, and it stayed fresh for longer, too (probably because it hadn't spent a day in transit).
    And look at cars. Every school boy will tell you Ferraris are the best sports cars. Er, sorry but no. Lotus, Noble, TVR and Caterham all make decent sports cars for a fraction of the cost and the motoring magazines I read seem to think they are the Dog's wotsits. Look at the McLaren F1. The fastest production car in the world. Who made it? A small British company, not a multi-national. Admittedly rediculously expensive, but what do you expect for a record-breaking car?
    In conclusion, bigger doesn't always mean better.

    If at first you don't succeed, hit it with a bigger hammer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok,now I'm in college, should be working but.... ya know.

    For a long time I protested against capitalism and the things that come with it (the bad things).... I don't anymore, not because I now agree with it, but because I realised that protesting does no good (in the way I was) and because that in the current world capitalism is all that we can have.

    To me, anarchy would be the best solution. Its not perfect, and there are a lot of flaws, but I think that ideally anarchy would be a much better society. When arguing this case before, all I would hear is things like' but there would be killing and nobody would have anything" ect ect. The fact (as far as I see it) is that in a society of anarchy, we wouldn't have this. However, if capitalism somehow failed tomorrow, and chaos ensued we would have that. As soon as there is killing and crime and alike, it is no longer anarchy.

    I hate what capitalism is doing to the world. It is incresing the rich/poor divide, and it is making the things which are bad for poor people and thrid world countries a lot worse. If governments and multinationals could stop beng so damned greedy then there would be no need for such a divide. But as in this world it is all about profit, the more the merrier (an attitude that I think sucks and creates a whole mass of problems), the world is going downhill fast. Crime is rising, mainly in the poorer areas, third world countries are becoming even more endebted to countries that simply do not need all that money and capitalism is ruining the lives of millions.

    Of course, its not all bad. It provides compaies such as McDonalds, who give cheap food fast, whether it is quality food or not doesn't matter, there it is the consumers choice whether to buy it. It allows countries to trade freely, and bring in money. It allows people to have jobs which bring in a lot of money. The problem with all this though, it that it only does this for a select few. The rich countries gain from it all, and trample over the poor countries. Multinationls go to these countries and set up production plants, pay the workers shite wages for long, difficult hours, and they are allowed to. In my opinion this is wrong. Rich people can go out and get a shit load of money, poor people can't afford higher education, therefore can't get the training needed for the well paid jobs. This means that they have to get worse paid jobs, often involving hard manual labour, earn less money and have to feed off the boots of the rich.

    Capitalism is only good for those who are already in a good position.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm so glad someone agrees with some of what I'm saying. I was terrified when everything I said was being criticised and picked to pieces. Please don't talk to me about anarchy. I just had to hand in an assessed essay on it for philosophy. About 80% of it was ripped off from the internet. Oh well, never mind. I would like to like in an anarchist society but I don't think it would work. Alternatively, I could just go and become a politician..smiles inanely :-)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Slog,

    Taste in food is subjective...I dont like tomatoes but that doesnt mean tomatoes are crap food. You eat what you want to and ill eat what I want.

    Mindless,

    Good to see you accept that Anarchism couldnt work. Its contrary to human nature. Capitalism works well.

    Im genuinely interested as to why you think Capitalism is destroying third world countries...Nike run sweat shops and the like and other large companies pay 3rd world workers to do the work as they are cheaper...But how is this a bad thing? If it werent for those companies then these people would have no work whatsoever. They get paid a fraction of what we do but in relation to their peers they get paid a huge amount.

    My mate works in London and he gets paid a 'london allowance' which is a lump of cash on top of his salary to cover the extra costs of living in London....I live and work in Hertfordshire and I get paid less than him when this bonus is factored in..Am I getting oppressed? It costs a hell of a lot more to live in the west than it does to live in a 3rd world country so therefore wages should be relative.

    If you pay some factory worker in china the same wages as a guy in essex then you have a chinaman who is practically a millionaire in his local community. Pay should be proportional to the amount it costs to live in the area.

    You also seem to miss the point that these evil capitalist companies arent forcing themselves on these countries. The govts of these countries ALLOW them to set up shop there. Any 3rd world country can refuse to allow a Nike sweatshop to setup.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm at home now... still not doing my work.
    Originally posted by Balddog:

    Mindless,

    Good to see you accept that Anarchism couldnt work. Its contrary to human nature. Capitalism works well.

    I think that anarchy could work.... but not in the currewnt society. There would need to be major changes primarily, I think, in the education system. Of course, theres virtually no chance of this happening. The government aren't going to educate people to believe in a no government system.

    Im genuinely interested as to why you think Capitalism is destroying third world countries

    I know all about the argument that they get paid relative t us, and yes, if they got the same it would be stupid. But even if what they get paid is right for the country they live in, the whole sweat shop thing is still outragous. They work too long shifts, are treated badly and it is not unknown for young children to be working in these conditions. You could say that that is what it is like in these countries, its expected there. But just because in one country their human rights laws suck, doesn't mean its ok for mulitnationals to go in and exploit these workers.
    Another issue is the whole third world debt thing. You know the common arguments, what are your views?

    You also seem to miss the point that these evil capitalist companies arent forcing themselves on these countries. The govts of these countries ALLOW them to set up shop there. Any 3rd world country can refuse to allow a Nike sweatshop to setup.

    The governments do. Governments have this nasty habit of being corrupt, in some way or another.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont agree with sweatshops employing children for what its worth. I think we should make sure these companies use the same employment laws we do over here.

    World debt..I think the best thing is to wipe the slate clean. I honestly cant see the point of keeping poor countries paying us meagre amounts of their debt to the detriment of their own countries. We should wipe off all 3rd world debt and let these countries build themselves up..Having the west hanging over their heads isnt a good thing.

    If they govt is corrupt then they should get a new one if they arent happy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know it's harsh, but I personally don't care what happens to the 3rd world. I hate the corporations because they are all the same, they offer no variety, no "spark" to life. I know their whole aim is to provide cheap produce, I just dont agree with it

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you propose that these people "get rid" of their government? Don't you think that if it was as easy as that then the Afghanistani people would have got rid of the Taliban a long time ago?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Krazed,

    In case you missed it there are a large amount of people who have been trying to get rid of the Taliban for years. They are called the Northern Alliance.

    If these people are so horrifically oppressed by the evil capitalists then they would do something. The dialectic shows that when they are so oppressed the glorious forces of the proletariat rise up against the oppressors and cast off their evil abuses of labour.

    Sorry ive been reading too many red books recently <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"&gt;

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