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Bullfighting: Barbaric Sport or Respectable Artform?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Is this use of animals as entertainment barbaric or simply misunderstood?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Bullfighting: Barbaric Sport or Respectable Artform?

    I know little about the "sport", however, if the animal is subjected to pain (and subsequent death) for the entertainment of people...I'd say barbaric.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it is extremely cruel
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's fairly cruel but of course no more so than sports like foxhunting or cockfighting, both of which still go on.

    I personally understand that many people feel strongly that bullfighting should be banned, but it's a Spanish tradition, part of their heritage, and still quite popular over there! Therefore I don't believe it's anyone else's business to say it should be banned.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its a Spanish (and Portugese , although they dont kill the bull) tradition , it is not our place to say whether it is right or wrong.

    They have been doing it for centuries and it is a major event over there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As a Spaniard I feel a bit qualified to talk about this. Let me introduce you to the barbaric, horrendous torture masquerading as art bullfighting is.

    When the bull goes into the ring he first encounters the picador, a callous wanker on a horse whose job is to weaken the bull by inflicting appalling injuries to its back by means of a lance. The picador incites the bull and when it charges against the horse he stabs repeatedly the bull just behind its neck. The process is repeated 3 or 4 times until he is satisfied the bull has been weakened. The bull often sustains broken nerves and ligaments that prevent him from charging or raising his head properly again, as well as suffering massive blood loss. An equal fight it ain't.

    After the picador has done his deed the banderilleros come in. Holding one banderilla (a two-foot stick with a long metal hook at one end) on each hand, the banderillero runs towards the bull and stabs it with the two banderillas, which if inserted properly will become embedded in the bull. Up to 6 banderillas are attached in such fashion, and whenever the bull is running afterwards they keep moving, further tearing the bull's flesh and producing unimaginable pain.

    Finally, the bullfighter comes in and does all that fancy stuff with the cape, letting the bull charge so he can dodge it and con it into going for the cape instead. After a few minutes it's time for the kill. The bullfighter gets his 3-foot long sword and stabs the bull with it up to the hilt.

    Very seldom will a bull die at the first attempt. Many "brave" bullfighters will only do half-hearted attempts without getting too close. As a result they keep trying and trying, often leaving the sword half out. At that point the bull falls out of utter exhaustion and blood loss, and a 'puntillero' comes in with a small blade in order to put it out of its misery by severing its spine cord and brain stem just above the neck. Again, very seldom will they achieve this at the first attempt, and in the worse cases they have had to do it up to 50 times, including twisting the blade around in an attempt to find the spinal cord, until the poor beast is finally dead.

    Bullfighting is one of the most revolting, savage and disgusting things anyone could do to an animal. I don't care if it is a "tradition" or "heritage". It was also a tradition for centuries to burn anyone at the stake who raised the suspicions of the church, or to own slaves, or many other things. What's wrong is wrong, and that this is part of Spain's heritage gives only cause for shame and disgust. I am not one to shed any tears whenever a bullfighter is killed. They are the lowest of the low.

    The only consolation is that younger generations are more detached from this "art", although there is still strong following amongst older people. In the meantime I completely sympathise with individuals and organisations who refuse to holiday in Spain until this barbarity is stopped.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin, I understand what you're saying - and as a Spaniard (didn't know that!), you're far more qualified to make a judgement.

    However, I think boycotting Spain as a holiday resort etc is a little extreme, and also as I said before, it's not for others to decide what one country should do. And there are still correos attended by many in Spain, so it seems not many people there are that bothered.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Saw a video with Cristina Sanchez, and everyone in the room was appaled by it.

    It's a tradition, but the way it is done is harsh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its an animal. Certainly it would be barbaric if it was a human. But it's just a bull. Not like your torturing your nextdoor neighbours son.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So if I were to put a kitten in the microwave 'for a laugh' you wouldn't mind Simbelyne? Is only an animal…

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone imposes the banning of bullfighting in Spain. That is a decision that has to be taken by the Spanish. But in the same way as many boycott fur products, companies that test on animals or holidays in Burma, individuals everywhere who are disgusted by bullfighting can make their contribution by staying away from Spain, and publicly announcing so, to apply extra pressure and help stop this repulsive ‘costume’.

    What really gets me if the "tradition" and "heritage" arguments. So what? Fox hunting is wrong, and I don't care if it has been done for 40 million years in Britain. Bullfighting is wrong and I don't care how much of a "tradition" it is in Spain. Why did we interfere with the Taliban "tradition" of oppressing people and stoning women to death for wearing make-up? The most stupid argument ever put across is to say that even if something is wrong we must respect it because it is a "tradition".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Simbelyne
    Its an animal. Certainly it would be barbaric if it was a human. But it's just a bull. Not like your torturing your nextdoor neighbours son.

    Cattle can feel pain. So why is it right to subject a bull to physical discomfort?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    Cattle can feel pain. So why is it right to subject a bull to physical discomfort?

    Not 'right'. But i'd rather have someone take out their murderous tendencies on an animal rather than a human.
    So if I were to put a kitten in the microwave 'for a laugh' you wouldn't mind Simbelyne? Is only an animal…

    I'd think you were seriously weird but, i'm not going to stop you!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At a personal level, not only I would try to stop my neighbour from putting a kitten in the microwave but I would smash his face in for good measure.

    A jail sentence well worth serving methinks!

    Animal cruelty is illegal and carries jail sentences for good reason. And although in Spain you would be in trouble with the law if you were to torture/slice up a dog, bulls don't seem to fall in the same category somehow.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fox hunting- you are a Spaniard - you are not British.

    Fox hunting serves a purpose , foxes are pests , they kill livestock and chickens.

    Tell someone from the country that fox hunting is simply wrong and they will get very annoyed with you , for good reason.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    Fox hunting- you are a Spaniard - you are not British.

    Fox hunting serves a purpose , foxes are pests , they kill livestock and chickens.

    Tell someone from the country that fox hunting is simply wrong and they will get very annoyed with you , for good reason.

    Fox Hunting seems abit weird - why hunt something if the odds are stacked against it and there are other more efficient (killing, time and money wise) ways of controlling them. If the hunters stopped putting up this siolly excuse of pest control then i'd personally have a lot more respect for them. Say that this is your sport and that it contributes to the local economy while also having the positive side-effect of pest control. Then I wouldn't mind it so much.

    Incidentally; working class bloodsports (cockfighting etc.) were banned in the C19 so why should the upper class have their bloodsport but not the lower classes? If the huntsmen believe in protecting traditions they should also be campaigning for the return of cockfighting, bear-baiting etc. If they can't stomach that, ban the lot. Waste of parliaments time these issues.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    Fox hunting- you are a Spaniard - you are not British.
    I'm no British. So what? Are you suggesting I can't comment on the issue?

    How dare you criticise Saddam Hussein torturing people? You're not Iraqi are you?

    :rolleyes:

    Fox hunting serves a purpose , foxes are pests , they kill livestock and chickens.

    Tell someone from the country that fox hunting is simply wrong and they will get very annoyed with you , for good reason.
    If foxes need culling for pest control, there are far more humane ways of culling than chasing them for hours only to be ripped to pieces alive by a bunch of mad dogs.

    The only people who might get annoyed if they hear foxhunting is wrong are those who enjoy the bloodsport. Most people who don't- and that's official if you are to believe a million opinion polls on the subject- are firmly against.

    So there you have it: foxhunting is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Let the range rover-driving, Daily Telegraph reading folk get into a fit by my outrageous statement.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are entitled to an opinion , of course.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cool. :)
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