If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options
Free speach
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I was going to bitch about my thread being locked, and the lame reasons. (please define "bonkers). But, I forgot that most on this board dont enjoy the freedom of speach. So I guess that you are used to having your mouth shut for you. You know, that really sucks. I like freedom, and who wouldn't. Freedom is a good thing.
So to all you poor folks that posted to my thread, thanks for the conversation. It was enjoyable.
"Have a nice day"-mick foley
So to all you poor folks that posted to my thread, thanks for the conversation. It was enjoyable.
"Have a nice day"-mick foley
0
Comments
they do enjoy free speech, they may get caned for it but hey what's new <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
so instead of not having free speech they should buy a gun to get it, right?
Playing with fire will ultimately see you burnt <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/ukliam2.gif">
I'm guessing that you're from the USA, right? I have a revelation for you: You don't have free speech either. You might be told that you do; there may even be a piece of paper in a Federal vault that says you do. But that is not the same thing as actually having it.
As for freedom being a good thing, I disagree. Absolute freedom is tantamount to anarchy. No freedom whatsoever is also bad (no diversity = no potential for progress). Limited freedom is better than both.
No, I do not feel that violence is the answer. Just because I have guns, does not mean that I should use them when I dont get my way. Force can be employed when all other options have been exhausted. But one must be aware of the risks involved when using force. The risk that more may be lost, and my many. Sometimes it is better to live to fight another day.
Now, I will agree that the preasence of said force in an idle state can and does get attention. From there a collective voice can be heard and a resolve be had.
Granted, but what things do you hold value on. What defines a man/woman, and where are the lines between anarchy and basic human rights. Do you have a right to voice your opinion? Do you have a right to defend yourself, including the means to do so? Do you have a right to worship what you feel is the image of the gods? Do you have the right to be treated fairly when these rights are taken if you are ever found to be in violation of the law? Do you have a right to be happy, providing that it does not directly cause the unhappiness of someone else? (and if me being happy with my lawful ownership and use of firearms makes you unhappy, then grow up because you have missed the point)
What about his right to be UNHAPPY that you have the right to bear 'arms'?
Two hundred years of history and you think that you can teach the UK - one of the oldest 'democracies' in the world - about freedom and democracy.
We may not have the bill of 'rights' but we don't feel that freedom can only be dictated by the gun either. We don't NEED to own guns to be free.
I miss 'Calvin' at least he was an American with an education.
In the US, laws are made that only restrict the lawful. The lawless continue to do as they will. What I do, as long as I dont harm anyone, should be of no concern to you. I can not make you feel anything. If you feel happy or unhappy, it is your emotional reaction. That is your issue, not mine. Go see a shrink and quit your whining.
As far as my education, what does that matter to you. You dont like me for one fact alone,FEAR. You fear anyone who has more power than you. I assume that you might be a mammas boy that was often overpowered by an abusive father. Now because you are weak, you wish everyone to be on your level. This is the normal mindset of today. Society is full of weak minded followers of a philosophy that all can live in peace. What a bunch of crap. Man has never lived in peace, and never will.
Tell me where a civilization ever opted to be disarmed. I really cant think of one. Ever since the Vietnam era, where we saw what war is like on our TVs, the world is afraid of it. People die, that is the way it is. More Americans die each year in traffic accidents than did in the Vietnam war. I dont see any signs that say, "ban the auto". Think to yourself, how many people you know have been injured/killed in auto accidents? And how many people do you know have been injured/killed by guns?
Tell me one thing, cuz IM un-educated. Do people in the UK suffer from "hoof and mouth disease" or is it "hoof-in-mouth disease"?
oh ffs stop being so silly. nobody fears you. no one was abused by their fathers and as a result is weak!
your arguments, to quote dom, are totally bonkers.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
~ Nietzsche
bon·kers (bngkrz)
adj. Informal
Crazy: “When word spread that free gas was to be found, the populace, as expected, went bonkers” (Washington Post).
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
~ Nietzsche
I never said anyone feared me, I simply implied that his actions/posts are driven by fear. Like anyone will ever admit the fears they have, we should know that everyone has them. It is one of the three prime sources of emotion. It is simple psychology. As is passive male/aggressive female tendencies in modern society.
No. Zero. Nada. Nothing.
Happy?
That's not to say that I don't have a deep sense of honour, or that I have my views on right and wrong. If anyone wants to discuss them, I'm more than willing. BUT. All systems of propositions (maths, philosophy, politics, et cetera) depend on a choice of axioms that cannot be proven (see Goedel). The implications of that statement should be obvious.
This is one reason why I 'like' the European CONVENTION on Human Rights but 'dislike' the Universal DECLARATION of Human Rights.
You have the right for any freedom you are willing to fight for.
So, for you....... yes, nothing.
no, you go and tell someone in China,Tibet,India etc.
TheSite.org unofficial chat room!
:: Shakes head sadly ::
You miss the point, TF. What I tried to point out was that all laws, rights etc. are merely the products of arbitrary conventions on what people think would be 'nice.' No matter how well you reason things out, you've got to start with some choice of axioms. Your choice will probably different to my choice, and the choice of the leaders of China.
As for "You have the right for any freedom you are willing to fight for." Well, that scares me, quite frankly, because it's only a small step from that statement to "You have to what ever you can fight to defend," i.e. "Might makes right," which was just about what the Nazis were for.
I thought the point of trying to acheive a civilisation was that everyone would become civilised and not act as base animals. Those that want to bail out of that commitment should go live on a small island somewhere to perfect their own solitary ideology.
And just how will you convince us uncivilized animals do go somewhere else. Remember that some of us animals are as smart as you.
I am all for you do what you want and Ill do what I want and try to keep it to ourselves. BUT, you goddamn anti-everything, selfrightous, people just cant have it that way. You are the reason wars start. People in this age think they can analize everything into perfect little rows. Try to learn from history. And not a watered down and sugared version of it. Go out and find what history really is, and what really happened.
This is obviously aimed at me, and I guess it deserves as response.
You really don't have a fucking clue about anything outside the US do you?
Er....none. You make my point for me. We have gun 'control' therefore the incidences of gun related crime, injury, accidents is lower. Coincidence?
Er...most of Europe. Why should I have to carry a gun? I have no fear of anyone, I am 'free'. I have no fear of invasion, we haven't been invaded for over 1000 years can you say the same?
What power do YOU have that I don't?
Thanks, for you detailed analysis of my personal life. Don't go into the psychology profession though because you suck at it.
The post is motivated by this simple truth: I think you are a moron.
Why is it, if you live in such a "free" country, you are discriminated agaisnt by the authorities if you admit you are affiliated with the coomunist party in anyway? Why as visitors to your "glorious free" country we are asked this question? What do they think will happen? We will incite revolution!!?!?
The only reason you think you are free is because your government lets you believe you are. It is non decision making, your illusion of freedom diverts your attention away from bigger problems. You think you have a right to life, but if this is the case why does your govenment, not only approve of, but INSIST that big companies are freely allowed to pump pollutants into the atmosphere?
You think you have freedom of speach and religion, then why are practising mormons persecuted? If it is their religion then they should be allowed to continue doing what they do.
Your "freedom" is just a con, i think you should wake up and realise this.
I've read the closed thread now and this all makes a bit more sense. The F50 does look like an impressive bit of kit (my old man used to be on the commitee for the Thames Valley Gun Club and we used to have single action M-16's and AR-15's floating around the house, I'm sure he'd appreciate unloading a few rounds with it) but possibly the site doesn't really do it justice. Oh, and add a picture of yourself, not just your ferrets, helps with customer relations.
I can tell you're damn proud of your product and why not?? How long did it take from design to construction??
As for your ideology, um, let's just say it wouldn't work in the UK where the right to own firearms isn't written into law. Few people here would claim that firearms are an induvidual right as they recognise that society operates better without them (hence my "solitary ideology" comment). Neither do I think that we must have firearms available because of religious troubles in the Middle East or political power-mongering on the India/Pakistan border.
People can feel and live securely here without recourse to clutching weapons to protect themsleves from (what??).
Only users lose drugs
On a lighter note, you might all enjoy this site for the Beaver County Militia, particularily it's weapons and improvised weapons secions;- http://members.tripod.com/~sonoguy/index.html
P.S. TF, this isn't aimed at you, but we happen to be in the general subject area.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
Only users lose drugs
that's a fucking plane
you've gone from a plane to guns that hover round houses
so they can see who they would want to shoot if they ever bought one?
hopefully longer than the web site
the guy's a moron - there's no need for guns, you shouldnt have to "fear" anything in the modern age. i wouldn't give a toss if i had one of those guns aimed at my head. sure, it would kill me, but i dont fear death so i sure as hell wouldn't fear something like that pointed at me.
guns do bugger all. a nation full of people with guns would last about 10 seconds against one nuke. grab some chemicals and you could construct something more fearful than any gun ever made. i dont care if you can hit me from a mile away, i could pollute your drinking water and kill an entire block.
why dont things like that happen - rational thought. why the hell would you want to do that? what would you achieve? a few deaths - oohhh "ur 'ard as nails".
as for shooting at bits of paper from a mile away...hmm. tends to be a lack of skill nowadays with laser sights and tracking, high powered guns etc id prefer watching archery.
Playing with fire will ultimately see you burnt <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/ukliam2.gif">
Hmmm... very pedantic MD, oh sorry, that would be a Managing Director wouldn't it??
I'm sure you wouldn't be afraid of TF pointing one at your head, after all you do have so much respect for his views and opinions as he does for yours.
I don't agree with what he says (especially whatever history he's been studying) but as I am trying to say a civilised society has no reason to resort to firearms unless driven to it by the base urges of it's citizens you are knida undermining my point. It is the lack of respect accorded to others that drives them to enforce it with terminal effect.
Only users lose drugs
ROFLMAO!!!
Oh, gods, that makes me laugh so much!
Let's take a look at that, shall we?
"anti-everything" - No, I just recognise that everything I and everyone else stands for is based on certain assumptions which might be wrong.
"self-rightous" - No, I'm not self-righteous. I think. (See above.)
"You are the reason wars start." - Loving it, loving it.
"analize" - Presumably meant to be a mis-spelling of 'analyze'/'analyse' that also attempts to cast aspersions on my sexuality. Once again, LOL.
"Try to learn from history. And not a watered down and sugared version of it. Go out and find what history really is, and what really happened." - Sorry, but I think I have a pretty good grasp of recent world history. Sure, I have by blank spots, but I'm ever willing to fill them. Incidentally, did you have any specific incidents in mind?
Now, listen here, TF. I am not a nihilist in the usual sense of the word. I have values etc. What is nihilistic about by views is that I recognise that they might be wrong. More to the point, I recognise that all is hypothesis; all is probability. There are no utter certainties.
Now, if you want to know what I believe constitutes 'right', here it is: complexity over chaos. I see no reason to favour one nation, one species, one form of life, one form of complexity over another. For me, 'good' is that which maximises the amount of complexity in the universe.
Yes, this is a bloody big and lofty idea. Yes, the power to compute 'good' in that sense is beyond most humans. And so we have to settle for local approximations: 'What's best for my species?', 'What's best for my nation?', 'What's best for my family?', 'What's best for me?'
You want to know what (I think) causes wars? People (quite naturally) reaching different conclusions about what is best for them, and projection onto those conclusions the good of all mankind / lifekind / complexity.
And, of course, all of this is based on certain assumptions. It is, to a great degree, highly arbitrary. But no more arbitrary than any religon, law, constitution, etc.
BTW, I hope we can continue this as a conversational discussion, not the slanging match it is in danger of becoming.
This is where USA and many of the European nations differ. You are content without a bill of rights. We are willing to die for our rights...
It is better die on your feet than live on your knees.
Shawn
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
Thomas Jefferson, Third President of the United States
I feel that this statement is dangerous and foolish. I will not belabour my point with examples of scenarios that you may find yourself in, but your general sense of well being is something that was earned by the blood of those before you, and if more fragile than you think.
Many people today believe that they live in a society that is 'civilized' but in the 1940's society was little different, and Europe was definitelly not considered a 'safe' place.
The fact that you lack fear of death is something that i cannot argue against. If you value your life so little that you would allow yourself to be under someone else's control (be it a burglar, rapist, criminal, or oppressive government) then I am happy that you are not afforded the rights of a free man.
Shawn
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
Thomas Jefferson, Third President of the United States
You don't get it do you? We don't NEED a gun to be free. We ARE free.
I think you'll find that the differnce is that we will die for our FREEDOM, not a piece of paper, a notion of 'rights' - in fact we've done so already. You say that yourself.
I have yet to hear what freedoms anyone posting here is willing to die for. I am willing to die for any right that is posted on the pieces of paper that made this country. The paper is a communications medium that has set the idea of freedom into the hearts of Americans through the ages. It is not just a piece of paper, it is the idea of freedom.
I am not sure of Eurpoean law, but in America our legal system is ruled by precedent. To me, losing my right to keep and bear arms would be an unforgivable affront on the other freedoms afforded to me in the bill of rights.
Shawn
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
Thomas Jefferson, Third President of the United States